WHY.........So much negativity!

[peter.evans]

Didsbury dave and others. if mancini is not the right man for the job and never was, can you tell us who exactly IS the right man for the job so we can all have a laugh ? Mancini has done a superb job at our club and there is a long way to go this season, so shut up moaning and get behind your team, after all that is what a true supporter should do is it not ? First full season qualified for ECL and won the FA cup, second full season won the EPL, bloody hell I'd hate to see what you lot exactly expect the right man for the job to achieve !!

 

[MATCITY]

We seen the same sorts of threads after the Arsenal game in April

Some people are naturally pessimistic you can't expect everyone to think the same

 

[bluesimon]

It's strange to me that the posters who want Jose at City would certainly want him sacked as manager of Real Madrid if they applied the same logic.

Jose is at a club where the politics are absolutely vast - at every level. But he has proven, where ever he goes, he is capable of being a tactical genius time and time again and is able to take players to the next level - the perfect example being with what he did at Inter that Mancini failed to do.

No manager wins all the time obviously. How did Dortmund do in Europe last season? Should United have sacked Ferguson for the trophy-less season last year? The rags won the Charity League Shield! Arsenal the Invincables! It can happen and does. As to Dortmund, what happened is that they learned their lessons in the Champions League last season and tactically out thought & out played teams, players and managers who, on paper, were supposed to be superior in every way.

I think DD, and those sympathetic to his views, are entitled to their opinion and in time might be proved correct but I can find no logic in any of their arguments.

Mancini has statistically over performed as a Manager even allowing for money spent.

With statistics, it is possible to manipulate the figures over and over again. The simple fact is that given the starting point that Mancini followed by the ability to spend a further £250m/£300m before and after the FA Cup, I believe that many managers (20+) would have achieved what he did. It has been proven that if you throw enough money at a project like this, you will achieve some relatively instant success. The real success is whether the manager can move it beyond standard expectations, having spent all that money, bring out something extra out of the players and tactically evolve. Mancini has clearly not done this. He has a proven mental block with the Champions League with what can only be described as a catastrophic record. He appears to hold major hangups and hoodoos against the likes of Everton, Sunderland, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Stoke, etc for away games (it obviously gets into his head and he clearly can't work out what to do) and he is full of contradictions - the most recent being against Sunderland, where he blames his team for playing tippy tappy football in and around the opposition penalty area - which is something which has 100% been his mantra in training ever since he arrived.

There are very few managers as good as Mancini and there is a good chance that we could end up with a weaker manager than him as a result. I don't think that makes DD anti City and I don't go along with the argument that we should be happy with second best because we used to put up with much worse.

What used to happen was pre £1bn being spent. Any individual, company, organisation on the Planet would expect a total transformation at every level when what was approaching 1000% of the previous annual turn over had been invested in less than 3 years.

It is clear to me that a Manager of the current Champions and whose team is currently second should remain in charge. If you disagree I would ask what level of success is acceptable to you before you DON'T want the Manager fired because if its higher than that how often do you think we will be changing Managers?

I agree that getting rid of Mancini now would be a mistake, but in the summer, almost irrelevent of the outcome of the season, it is likely he will go. What ever you may think about Chelsea, for example, Roman has achieved more constant success and moved them up the food chain by his willingness to chop and change managers at the drop of a hat. I am not necessarily agreeing with that process, but what he understands is that by throwing the money he has done at the club on a consistant basis and getting the personnel right, it works and the success scales new and evolving height but also, you have to carry on juggling the personnel to allow for fresh ideas and approaches to come through. Clubs do it with players, so why not managers? Remember, Fergie is a freak of nature in almost any aspect of the work environment (ie: he has no ownership but has been at the helm for 26+ years).

 

[Didsbury Dave]

We seen the same sorts of threads after the Arsenal game in April

Some people are naturally pessimistic you can't expect everyone to think the same

We did, and Mancini saw fit to go and get himself another job sorted out. So he was also pretty pessimistic about his own future. And if you are happy with our performances and results this season then you aren't optimistic, you are deluded.

 

[cleavers]

The questions were in the boards mind, and mancini's, when it looked like we had blown the league. It appears Sergio saved his job.

Of course They had no choice but to give him a new deal in summer as they couldn't have him going into the final year of his contract. That's what happens with all managers and all players. It still was no doubt given along with a series of targets and I think we all agree that we have fallen well short of.

At the time he'd earnt that new contract by winning the league, but if you think a 5 yr contract means a 5 yr mandate then you misunderstand the nature of contacts. It's just a financial deal and will be littered with break clauses and protection for adug. That's why it will have taken so long to negotiate.

Maybe Sergio did, who knows.

I fully understand that a 5 year contract in football is only like saying you have the job for tomorrow, but what I was getting at, was if there were doubts in the boards mind, even once we had won the league, why 5, why not 4, 3, 2, or even a 1 year rolling deal for instance, with clauses for both sides ? Obviously one reason may be that he would only negotiate on 5, but he will know as well as me and you, that this is only a number on a peice of paper, so why would he worry about it. If the board didn't want 5, why not just say thanks, we'll move on ?

Also why then undermine him by not going all out for his transfer targets, or at least 1 or 2 of them ? I'm not convinced FFPR is a good enough reason, maybe we did and the players simply didn't want to come.

I'm not convinced they are thinking about any immediate change just now, even if others became available, they don't strike me as a board that makes sudden rash decisions, so I'm pretty confident he will at least see out this season, and see where we end up. To stay he will at least need to retain the title, or finish 2nd with at least as many points as last year (which (points wise anyway) looks unlikely at this stage). The FA Cup wouldn't save him imho, the league might, both I'm sure would.

None of us know what his relationship with Soriano and Begiristain is like, its just pure speculation that they may not view him as the way forward.

 

[Big Swifty]

There seems to be a lack of clear thinking on this thread. What some folk call "negativity" does not mean that some Bluemooners are anti-City. We ALL love City to death (literally), but it is not being disloyal or negative to argue that some things need addressing, and quickly. To say simply "get behind the team" ignores the fact that, when it matters, we all do get behind the team, but our cheering them on does not put glaring weaknesses right.
No, we don't want to go back to pre-2008, but to live on the glories of May 2012 is a sure way of sliding into complacency and a slow decline as others flourish. This isn't a "Mancini out" thread. Backing the club is taken for granted. Addressing problems, however minor, is. This is not being negative, just realistic.

 

[cleavers]

Didsbury dave and others. if mancini is not the right man for the job and never was, can you tell us who exactly IS the right man for the job so we can all have a laugh ? Mancini has done a superb job at our club and there is a long way to go this season, so shut up moaning and get behind your team, after all that is what a true supporter should do is it not ? First full season qualified for ECL and won the FA cup, second full season won the EPL, bloody hell I'd hate to see what you lot exactly expect the right man for the job to achieve !!

People have a right to question things on a forum, it doesn't mean they aren't behind the club, and aren't true supporters, and there are plenty of threads on here telling you they think are considered the best for the job, none of them come with any guarantees though, none of them, just like Mancini didn't/doesn't for the future.

 

[cleavers]

We did, and Mancini saw fit to go and get himself another job sorted out.

I think "sorted out" is a little far fetched.

Do we know who approached who ? Assuming he was the guy they wanted, I'm sure Monaco were watching our situation closely, and when it looked like we had blown the league, then made some contact. Whether optimistic or pessimistic Mancini would have to be a fool not to have had a back up plan, assuming he still wanted to work.

Nothing I have seen has convinced me that it was a dead cert he would have gone in the summer if we hadn't won the league, whether sacked or walked.

This year I think he probably has to retain the title, or he will be gone, given that europe has gone already.

 

[Any1aBlue]

I would hasten to say that the calling of our fans are "shit" as has been said several times on Blue Moon and around Twitter and the like is a little misplaced. I understand where the point of view comes from, but the problem isn't with our fans - it's with fans of a team who are successful. We've been spoilt in the last few years with performances and results, and, when that sort of thing starts to become a regularity, fans begin to expect it. And understandably so.

Something clearly hasn't been right with City this season and a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that we played much better for the mostpart of last season with, what, in theory, should be a weaker team - we've strengthened, yet it all hasn't clicked. And we're dropping points we didn't drop last year. Throw in that our nearest rivals are ahead of us and in control of the league and the frustration doubles.

When expectations are upped and winning becomes a more regular event, defeats like at Sunderland become hard to take. I reacted VERY badly to that defeat to the point where I was sulking with football up until about 20 minutes ago - yet we've lost much more embarrassing games in much more embarrassing ways and it's not affected me so badly; it's all because of the original expectations we have pre-match rather than what we used to have.

We have to make sure, though, that we do not overreact to bad situations. Ok, we're seven points behind and, truthfully, I haven't quite thrown in the towel yet (and I'm an early towel thrower-inner, I did it last year after we drew with Stoke - we still had a draw with Sunderland and a defeat to Arsenal to go before we dropped as far behind as we did!). However, I think now our biggest error was not signing van Persie: We're creating chances, but not scoring them... van Persie's converting them at a similar-performing United side.

But who knows what can happen in the next half of the season? van Persie could get injured, Tevez could go on a scoring spree and finish top scorer, City's 3-5-2 might be the answer when the right full backs are fit.

Because we've been spoilt for success in recent years, we've become hungry for more. And when it looks like it's not going well, it's understandable we are frustrated with it. But sometimes we need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture: We're still doing better than most of our fans have ever seen. We might get it wrong this season, but that's not a reason to start booing the team or start moaning at players or consider sacking the manager - they should be reserved for when we're consistently getting it wrong.

And we're not. Not yet.

If we get it wrong this season and win nothing, so be it. But that doesn't mean the same will happen the season after. We're in a brilliant position to build on our successes. So just because we've had some successes recently, let's not get impatient for more - because there WILL be more soon.

Great post.

Great post but you're banging your head against the wall. There will always be that minority element of the grass is always greener whingers. Every club has them. Thankfully, I think our owners understand the importance of stability much better than the media and doomsayers would have you believe. You only have to look at the Chavs, who have missed out on the title for four seasons running (in spite of all their spending) because the Mad Russian hasn't a clue about how you build a footballing dynasty. The glass half empty brigade are kidding themselves if they think they're going to be getting Jose or Pep at the end of this season. If we don't win a thing in May, Bobby will still be in charge in August.

"If we don't win a thing in May, Bobby will still be in charge in August".
I'll remind you of that statement in August..................

 

[Any1aBlue]

Well for me it isn't just since last August. I think the cracks have been there for most of mancini's tenure. A managers ability manifests itself in the way his team perform according to their combined abilities. A great manager makes a team better than the sum of its parts. Look at Dortmund this year, or Swansea, or even man united. Their managers make them play as a unit and they get results against teams with better individuals but less team ability. In the whole of mancini's three years I'd say there was a period which started in April 2011 and finished in December 2011 where you could say that our team fulfilled its potential. Luckily, that spell won us the fa cup and the league. But outside of those periods we have, apart from in patches, underachieved on the field. And this year we have had a spell of nearly 30 games where we have played badly. That's not a blip, it's a trend. In fact it's rapidly moving towards a crisis.

Throw in two abysmal champions league campaign(and a couple of Europa leagues too). These games have been a benchmark for the city of the future. There is no doubt that adug have targeted europeAn success for Manchester city. And there has been no evidence at all that Mancini can achieve That with his squad. In fact it's worse, because he's shown constant European underachievement at his previous clubs. He also has a terrible reputation within the club for his people management skills. He's disliked by a lot of people.

So for me that's the bigger picture, and you can't ignore several other key factors: mancini's Monaco offer makes it obvious his job was under threat last season. So we know from that there are question marks about him in the board's minds. There are also two world class managers, both who can easily be linked with us, coming available soon. And we have a new director of football in place who is watching things like a hawk.


I'd say that the bigger picture is precisely the reason why.mancini is on very thin ice right now. This is not a case of 'hero to zero' in half a season. It's increasingly looking like mancini's chickens are coming home to roost.

A brilliant summary Dave of why i and many others are unhappy with Mancini.It baffles me how people refuse to see his glaringly obvious faults and weaknesses yet somehow award him Messiah like status because he was fortunate enough to be granted the golden ticket.

He isn't the right man for us and,i'll go further,i don't believe he ever was.

Exactly, and, as usual, you and I are in complete agreement, Didsbury.

Never mind the 'rats deserting a sinking ship' crass analogy for not blindly following an unliked regime, being pedalled herein
- what about the 'moles' who daren't speak out for fear of being called 'rags' and 'traitors' on this site.
I totally agree that Mancini was never right for the post, and I never liked Platt either. The tactics and team selections have always been baffling and we won the League INSPITE of the 'leadership' and not because of it...............there I've said it and it doeant make me less loyal - it makes me more so as i care about MY Club and I think we're going backwards.