Damocles said:Freestyler said:When a club moves forward so does the managers. The owners/fans as each year goes on expect to see an improvement and City competing and performing at the highest level.
Constant year by year improvement is a myth and a ridiculous requirement. Some years will be harder than others, sometimes you take a step back one year and three forward the year after. Absolutely no club in the world can survive the idea that the club needs to do better than last year or they would be sacked. With this attitude there would be no Barca La Masia, no United domination, no Real Madrid domination. This is the equivalent of saying that a boxer should sack the trainer if they don't win every round.
he's referring to our dire european failure over the last 3 attempts under mancini,not progress alround i presume ?
Mancini is a great manager, imo not one of the best in the world. Probably not even top 5 imo,
Mancini has won a trophy in every single full season of management apart from his first. Your biases are irrelevant, Mancini is a proven quantity at delivering trophies, which makes him one of the very few managers in the world who is.
but the owners want european trophies,they've said all along ?
when the club get's to a certain point it has to 'upgrade' so to speak with the level it moves towards. We've had Hughes who wasn't the best but played a part in buying bigger players and moving us forward ever so slightly and make us a better team, now we have Mancini. He's driven us on and taken us to the next part of our journey in what this club is aiming for, no expects instant glory and success but they want to see improvement and the club going forward.
Wanting to see improvement on a title winning team is the definition of wanting instant success.
No its not,its wanting to see an improvement on our major decline in the winters months last season,we won the title but our form was awful in that period,thats what i believe he's asking for when he wants " improvement"
Far too often we respect lesser teams. Instead of going for the kill when the opponents are on the rack, we sit back, stroll around and play the game at a walking pace when the chances are that we'd have wrapped the game up playing to our own strengths. This team would be excellent if it was allowed to express itself but it isn't. He holds us back, the small and little amount of times we have been given the freedom to attack we've been brilliant.
We've scored more goals than any team in PL last year. We're not that far off it this year. The idea that he holds us back is utterly, utterly absurd and based on nothing at all. This is literally demanding that we win every game 4-0.
no again,everyone who follows footy knows city could rip tp pieces most other teams,but rm likes tp play softly softly has if he's to scared to win at times,go for the throat i say
The key line here - Our side is now missing a proper tactical, inside out knowledgeable world class manager.
Because if there's anybody who is qualified to judge the tactical merits of managers, it's a bunch of fans with little training or experience in football theory. Mancini is an excellent tactician, as evidenced by the amount of goals that our subs score, more than any other team in the league last year and look to do it again this year. His ability to change a game is second to none. More than this, Mancini is famous in football circles not for his motivational skills but his tactical skills. Criticising his ability to motivate and you might have a point, but you are literally criticising his biggest strength and saying he doesn't possess it.
he said something like this after the madrid away,his infamous " fix it " tripe,5 games in,yeah he's fixed it
Europe is a far cry, he hasn't got it. The Premiership is another story, is HE really responsible for us winning the league? Our side needs a world class manager to make us what we want to be. The bottom line is, Mancini will be gone because he can't take us to that next level. Despite the fact that football's about opinions, more & more blues are taking offence at any honest comments made.
I'm taking offence at the complete disregard for any evidence in your comments yes. You criticise him for holding us back whilst we score more goals than anybody else. You criticise his tactical ability when it's famously his strongest asset. This is not a thought out or considered opinion. In short, and I'm not being mean here just factual, I don't think you know what you are talking about and have already decided your opinion before actually looking at the facts. To be honest, I'm not sure you've even tried to look at the facts.
others take " offence " at his apologists,in the league we're doing " ok ish " but something isnt right everyone knows or can sense this,don't even go into our eruo form
This is not 'Mancini out', remember i'm talking about having a manager being good enough to manage what he has. Mancini is not out of his depth, or a poor manager. He is a great manager but he just isn't up to scratch to take us to where the fans/owner want to be. He's part of the chain of our rise to the top and he'll be one of the managers who had his turn to get us there. But not the final piece of the jigsaw, and the height of quality we aimed for
Quite simply if you want be the best, you need to hire the best. We're reaching that level now...
If you've got your opinion fine, but don't suddenly claim to speak for both the fans and the owner and our expectation level.
This is one of those posts which looks reasonable on the surface but when you actually look at what they are saying is stupid.
gordondaviesmoustache said:What possible fair calculation excludes revenue from the equation?Chippy_boy said:gordondaviesmoustache said:Well he's referred to one billion pounds on five occasions, which is anything from accurate and, therefore, far from fair.
Well it was £930bn by May of this year, so he's probably not far off.
OK so some £300-odd million has been generated in income so the Sheikh hasn't had to put his hand in his own pocket for the full amount but it doesn't change the fact that since 2008 when he bought us, we have spent around 1 billion pounds and since it's his club, it's fair to say he's spent £1bn.
You dismiss £300 million as if it's not relevant. A mere bagatelle.
So no, it isn't fair to say he's spent £1bn. The fact you think it is, says a great deal.
Chippy_boy said:gordondaviesmoustache said:What possible fair calculation excludes revenue from the equation?Chippy_boy said:Well it was £930bn by May of this year, so he's probably not far off.
OK so some £300-odd million has been generated in income so the Sheikh hasn't had to put his hand in his own pocket for the full amount but it doesn't change the fact that since 2008 when he bought us, we have spent around 1 billion pounds and since it's his club, it's fair to say he's spent £1bn.
You dismiss £300 million as if it's not relevant. A mere bagatelle.
So no, it isn't fair to say he's spent £1bn. The fact you think it is, says a great deal.
Oh the irony in your last sentence, you cretin.
So when you bought your car for £30k, you told your mates you only spent £2k because you earned £28k last year. Er, right.
mcmanus said:Chippy_boy said:gordondaviesmoustache said:What possible fair calculation excludes revenue from the equation?
You dismiss £300 million as if it's not relevant. A mere bagatelle.
So no, it isn't fair to say he's spent £1bn. The fact you think it is, says a great deal.
Oh the irony in your last sentence, you cretin.
So when you bought your car for £30k, you told your mates you only spent £2k because you earned £28k last year. Er, right.
What a complete shit analogy.
Freestyler said:Here me out, this is NOT a 'Mancini out' post. Or in relation to tonight's failings against Dortmund. Just a post on how i feel about Mancini's future and why his job at City is constantly talked about.
Firstly we'll rule out the following comments, neither of 4 terms below are relevant to the post i will put forward:
1. 'Unbeaten in the league' - United have lost 3 games and sit above us in the league. Would you say 'unbeaten in the league' if we drew 38 games in a season? no. We've been shite most the season, could easily have lost games due to obscure tactics and substitutions and getting away with murder. We've been outplayed by teams in the bottom half of The Premiership time and time again.
2. 'He won us the league' - The resources given he should have walked the league. Won it due to a United downfall and it took Brian Kidd to convince Mancini we could claw it back. The quality of the side pulled us through IMO, you'd think we won it by 15 points the way some talk.
3. 'Remember where we've come from' - by FAR the most overused and stupidest comment around these days. We've got a team worth £400mill, not £5mill. It's 2012, not 1998. Give it a rest..
4. 'We need stability' - true, but stability and loyalty to managers counts for nothing when the team doesn't improve.
The reason:
When a club moves forward so does the managers. The owners/fans as each year goes on expect to see an improvement and City competing and performing at the highest level.
Mancini is a great manager, imo not one of the best in the world. Probably not even top 5 imo, when the club get's to a certain point it has to 'upgrade' so to speak with the level it moves towards. We've had Hughes who wasn't the best but played a part in buying bigger players and moving us forward ever so slightly and make us a better team, now we have Mancini. He's driven us on and taken us to the next part of our journey in what this club is aiming for, no expects instant glory and success but they want to see improvement and the club going forward.
Our team is built, the foundations are there now. We've got a top top side which should be able to compete at the highest level (not go and beat everyone and win everything) just compete and take the game to teams.
Far too often we respect lesser teams. Instead of going for the kill when the opponents are on the rack, we sit back, stroll around and play the game at a walking pace when the chances are that we'd have wrapped the game up playing to our own strengths. This team would be excellent if it was allowed to express itself but it isn't. He holds us back, the small and little amount of times we have been given the freedom to attack we've been brilliant.
The key line here - Our side is now missing a proper tactical, inside out knowledgeable world class manager. If a manager came in he wouldn't have to buy more than 2 players, the ones at disposal now would be any managers dream. I like Mancini, but i think we need a real proper good tactical coach to take us to the next level. IMO Mancini is not that man, he'll only try to improve the squad by constant spending and not improve the team through management.
Europe is a far cry, he hasn't got it. The Premiership is another story, is HE really responsible for us winning the league? Our side needs a world class manager to make us what we want to be. The bottom line is, Mancini will be gone because he can't take us to that next level. Despite the fact that football's about opinions, more & more blues are taking offence at any honest comments made.
This is not 'Mancini out', remember i'm talking about having a manager being good enough to manage what he has. Mancini is not out of his depth, or a poor manager. He is a great manager but he just isn't up to scratch to take us to where the fans/owner want to be. He's part of the chain of our rise to the top and he'll be one of the managers who had his turn to get us there. But not the final piece of the jigsaw, and the height of quality we aimed for
Quite simply if you want be the best, you need to hire the best. We're reaching that level now...
Freestyler said:Here me out, this is NOT a 'Mancini out' post. Or in relation to tonight's failings against Dortmund. Just a post on how i feel about Mancini's future and why his job at City is constantly talked about.
Firstly we'll rule out the following comments, neither of 4 terms below are relevant to the post i will put forward:
1. 'Unbeaten in the league' - United have lost 3 games and sit above us in the league. Would you say 'unbeaten in the league' if we drew 38 games in a season? no. We've been shite most the season, could easily have lost games due to obscure tactics and substitutions and getting away with murder. We've been outplayed by teams in the bottom half of The Premiership time and time again.
2. 'He won us the league' - The resources given he should have walked the league. Won it due to a United downfall and it took Brian Kidd to convince Mancini we could claw it back. The quality of the side pulled us through IMO, you'd think we won it by 15 points the way some talk.
3. 'Remember where we've come from' - by FAR the most overused and stupidest comment around these days. We've got a team worth £400mill, not £5mill. It's 2012, not 1998. Give it a rest..
4. 'We need stability' - true, but stability and loyalty to managers counts for nothing when the team doesn't improve.
The reason:
When a club moves forward so does the managers. The owners/fans as each year goes on expect to see an improvement and City competing and performing at the highest level.
Mancini is a great manager, imo not one of the best in the world. Probably not even top 5 imo, when the club get's to a certain point it has to 'upgrade' so to speak with the level it moves towards. We've had Hughes who wasn't the best but played a part in buying bigger players and moving us forward ever so slightly and make us a better team, now we have Mancini. He's driven us on and taken us to the next part of our journey in what this club is aiming for, no expects instant glory and success but they want to see improvement and the club going forward.
Our team is built, the foundations are there now. We've got a top top side which should be able to compete at the highest level (not go and beat everyone and win everything) just compete and take the game to teams. I'd relish Mourinho at City, but i want Mancini to prove me wrong and not have me worrying about anyone else. I keep trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but I always end up going back to my original stance.
Far too often we respect lesser teams. Instead of going for the kill when the opponents are on the rack, we sit back, stroll around and play the game at a walking pace when the chances are that we'd have wrapped the game up playing to our own strengths. This team would be excellent if it was allowed to express itself but it isn't. He holds us back, the small and little amount of times we have been given the freedom to attack we've been brilliant.
The key line here - Our side is now missing a proper tactical, inside out knowledgeable world class manager. If a manager came in he wouldn't have to buy more than 2 players, the ones at disposal now would be any managers dream. I like Mancini, but i think we need a real proper good tactical coach to take us to the next level. IMO Mancini is not that man, he'll only try to improve the squad by constant spending and not improve the team through management.
Europe is a far cry, he hasn't got it. The Premiership is another story, is HE really responsible for us winning the league? Our side needs a world class manager to make us what we want to be. The bottom line is, Mancini will be gone because he can't take us to that next level. Despite the fact that football's about opinions, more & more blues are taking offence at any honest comments made.
This is not 'Mancini out', remember i'm talking about having a manager being good enough to manage what he has. Mancini is not out of his depth, or a poor manager. He is a great manager but he just isn't up to scratch to take us to where the fans/owner want to be. He's part of the chain of our rise to the top and he'll be one of the managers who had his turn to get us there. But not the final piece of the jigsaw, and the height of quality we aimed for
Quite simply if you want be the best, you need to hire the best. We're reaching that level now...