Will we win the Prem / Title still possible (merged)

[jimharri]

Pool had many injuries too, not as much as us, but they still had many.
Jose Enrique out for season, Martin Kelly out for season, these are long 6-8 months injuries. Agger is very injury prone, he was like that in the last 5 years, this season too. Sakho also was injured a few times.
Lucas became injury prone too.

What was big difference that their key players were not really injured at once. Ours was injured a lot at the same time. Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho, Suarez, Sturridge, Skrtel, I would say they are the best performers for them this season and also Sterling, and these players could play a lot of league games together so they had this kind of spine.

For us Kompany, Yaya, Silva, Agüero, Fernandinho, Zabaleta didnt spend much time together for us in the PL this season.

Of course we cant really complain as when we had Agüero out we could count on Negredo, Dzeko, Jovetic.

If Suraez is out for them for 3 months they have to play Alberto and Aspas and they dont come close to our options, our squad is lot stronger.
But Suarez was lucky because he only had that 6 match ban at the start of the season and did not get injured once and probably started all league games since than.

But we had this kind of luck in 2011-2012, when Kompany, Lescott, Barry, Yaya all was able to start 30+ games out of 38. Also Agüero played in like 35 games that season only in PL. Thats 90% of the games.
Silva started 33 league games in 11-12, and came on from bench 3 times. He only didnt play in 2 games out of 38.
Makes big difference of course. We were lucky that year with injuries. Like Pool this time.
(While at the biggest rival United Vidic played only 6 games that season!)

Also Pool had better chance to deal with injuries as they were not in Europe, no extra games, no extra long travels before weekend games around Europe, thats helps a lot. This meant they are less tired, less chance to get injured.

I dont like injuries as an excuse. We were the better team getting the most points in 11-12 than United and they had worse injury record. Even with that it was very close finish. When my rag friends told me if they had less injury we wouldnt have won it. I laughed in their face like many other City fans probably to similar statements.
Not very different this time just now Pool is on the good side of the dick...

Would Enrique, Kelly and Sakho be as vital for them as Kun, Vinnie and Merlin are for us? I don't think so.

 

[manimanc]

We're gonna do it, we really are going to win the league.
They will drop points.
I got a feeling we will get 86 pts.
It bears the hallmarks of 2012, the matches, the scoring of goals, the feeling, everything to me is uncanny.
Don't ask me why but I just feel we're going to do it.
Game on! !!

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think what is evident - and has been for ages - is that we have been far too dependent on a core of players. Our team is built around Kompany - Yaya - Silva - Aguero. If one of them is missing, we're OK. Two missing, we struggle. Three missing, we really struggle and can easily lose.

I know when you have world class talent like Aguero, they are not easy to replace. But i think it's a function of how we are still work in progress. For a long time, we have had to buy who we can get and then build the team around them. As opposed to having an established team and system, and buying the right players to fit. So when one of key players is not there, our system which is so dependent on them, suffers.

When you look at Arsenal (not that they are perfect by any means, but it does illustrate a point) they all know their system backwards and when a player is missing they can slot another one in and carry on as before. They were without 5 key players in our match at the Emirates and they still bossed the game for the whole of the 2nd half. I cannot see us bossing any game against a decent side if we had 5 or our top players missing. When we have 2 or 3 key players missing, we are often perhaps 50% as good as normal. Arsenal or Chelsea, perhaps 90% as good. The numbers are arbitrary, but you get the point.

I don't think its just about quality either. Our B list players (sorry fellas) are more than good enough to fill in, but for some reason we cease to function effectively as a team when we have key players missing. I hope this is something we can address going forward since you cannot rely on the same 11 all the time, especially challenging deep into 4 competitions. Your players end up worn out, or crocked, which is what has happened this season.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Isn't the issue always going to be how do you sign Yaya, Aguero or Hart mk2 and ask the new signing or the original to warm the bench? Thats what makes it hard and inevitable that the star players understudy will always be an inferior player I am afraid

 

[Chippy_boy]

Isn't the issue always going to be how do you sign Yaya, Aguero or Hart mk2 and ask the new signing or the original to warm the bench? Thats what makes it hard and inevitable that the star players understudy will always be an inferior player I am afraid

But we are too dependent on star players imho. We need to learn to be more effective as a team so that when a star player is not there, the wheels don't fall off.

To be fair, we are making progress. The way Garcia has stood in for Fern, and Fern for Yaya, is encouraging. And MDM and Lescott did a great job with Kompany missing recently. But it's work in progress.

 

[Johnsonontheleft]

The question is this:

How much would you be prepared to pay to guarantee that Liverpool don't win tomorrow?

Once you have a figure, stick it on Liverpool to win. It's a no lose situation (though I'd be less bothered if I lost the money).

I employed this tactic with the rags and it's cost me a fortune this season. Worth every penny though.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Isn't the issue always going to be how do you sign Yaya, Aguero or Hart mk2 and ask the new signing or the original to warm the bench? Thats what makes it hard and inevitable that the star players understudy will always be an inferior player I am afraid

I wold hope we could sign a better keeper than Hart mark 1

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Isn't the issue always going to be how do you sign Yaya, Aguero or Hart mk2 and ask the new signing or the original to warm the bench? Thats what makes it hard and inevitable that the star players understudy will always be an inferior player I am afraid

But we are too dependent on star players imho. We need to learn to be more effective as a team so that when a star player is not there, the wheels don't fall off.

To be fair, we are making progress. The way Garcia has stood in for Fern, and Fern for Yaya, is encouraging. And MDM and Lescott did a great job with Kompany missing recently. But it's work in progress.

You're right. Most neutral fans say city depend on there spine and they're right. It's been like it for 3 years, once any of them get injured we become a bit vulnerable despite having a good replacement.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Isn't the issue always going to be how do you sign Yaya, Aguero or Hart mk2 and ask the new signing or the original to warm the bench? Thats what makes it hard and inevitable that the star players understudy will always be an inferior player I am afraid

But we are too dependent on star players imho. We need to learn to be more effective as a team so that when a star player is not there, the wheels don't fall off.

To be fair, we are making progress. The way Garcia has stood in for Fern, and Fern for Yaya, is encouraging. And MDM and Lescott did a great job with Kompany missing recently. But it's work in progress.

You're right. Most neutral fans say city depend on there spine and they're right. It's been like it for 3 years, once any of them get injured we become a bit vulnerable despite having a good replacement.

It's like we lose our mojo. In a way though, it's not surprising. We have built our team around marquee players and the way they play. So Silva is given pretty much a free role to float where on earth he likes (which given his talent is pretty sensible to be fair). But this comes at a cost that when they are not there, it leaves a massive hole.

By contrast when you look at a Swansea under Rogers or Southampton under Pochettino, they tend not to work like this because they can't afford the star players in the first place. So the shape of the team and the way they play, becomes more important than who's playing. This is true of the very best teams as well, although there are obviously some players like Messi or Ronaldo who you just HAVE to build your team around as they are so good. But if you look at Chelsea, they play pretty much the same no matter who starts. Their B team would give their A team a decent game. The lot down the road won championship after championship doing pretty much that. That's clearly not the case at City.

It's something I really hope we can improve upon going forward as we are no longer in the "building" phase of the project - at least as far as the team is concerned, if not the club. This should be the start of the delivery phase.

 

[Riddick]

The lack of class on here by some posters is disappointing tbh. While it is not done and dusted, if Liverpool win the title then they deserve it, just like we did in 2012.

I saw a stat, 8th of April, that said Liverpool players had missed a total of 107 league games, ours at the time was 77.

Luck? I've seen them score some really unlucky OGs, and they had things go against them at our place and at Chelsea, where the refs did them no favours. We were screwed at Anfield but this evens out our first game. They had decisions in their favour at West Ham and Old Trafford but also had decisions go against them in those matches so I don't get the penalty excuse either.

Not good enough to win it? I've seen them rip the likes of Arsenal and Everton etc to shreds, and have won thier last 11 games. They've played great football and are more than the sum of their parts.

If we don't win it then we don't deserve to and we should look at the points dropped against poor teams and where we have failed and stop deluding ourselves as that helps no one.