Wilshere: 'England for the English'

dazdon said:
Anyone who wants to define themselves as ENGLISH and identify themselves as English is OK in my book to play for England.

Maybe I'm being a bit thick here mate, but just how do you define yourself as English when you were not born in England and, as in the case of this latest rag wunderkid, never lived here either?
It's a bit like me 'defining' myself as Spanish because I copped off with a cute senorita whilst on holiday in Benidorm, and finding I quite like the weather and the Rioja.
 
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
dazdon said:
Anyone who wants to define themselves as ENGLISH and identify themselves as English is OK in my book to play for England.

Maybe I'm being a bit thick here mate, but just how do you define yourself as English when you were not born in England and, as in the case of this latest rag wunderkid, never lived here either?
It's a bit like me 'defining' myself as Spanish because I copped off with a cute senorita whilst on holiday in Benidorm, and finding I quite like the weather and the Rioja.

But people are saying it is ok to be defined as english if you have never lived here but one of your parents is english?

I may be wrong here but Owen Hargreaves was born and raised in Canada, moved to Germany when he was 16 and never lived in England when he was called into the England squad. Ive no idea if he had even stepped in the country before he was called up.

Now this Januzai kid has lived here two years, and would have to wait another 3 if he wanted to play for England. So if he is prepared to wait to play for england spurning the approaches of other countries as he now considers himself English then who are we to argue. From the sounds of it he could play for about 10 countries so maybe he has never considered himself attached to another country before?

If he waits until he is 23 to play for england he will have spent more of his adulthood here than anywhere else. Id say thats qualification.
 
afc16 said:
Matty said:
I don't think it's a black and white issue (no pun intended). I don't agree that the only fact to consider should be the country you were actually in when you were born. What if you were born in, say, Africa, but spent almost your entire life, from the age of lets say 8, through to your present age of, for arguments sake, 30 living in England and believing yourself to be English. Should you be banned from representing England? Should you only be eligible for your country of birth? Guess we should hand back all Mo Farah's gold medals then?

I'm not a fan of the nationalisation of players in the way that some countries do it. Diego Costa for example is a Brazillian who has been part of friendly squads for Brazil, but never played a competitive match for them. He has spent the last 5 years living and working in Spain, so is now eligible for Spanish citizenship. The Spanish FA, and Costa himself, now want him to play for Spain. I'm sorry but, for me, Costa isn't Spanish. He's 25 years old, he spent 20 years living outside of Spain (18 years in Brazil and 2 in Portugal) and 5 years living in Spain. For me that's the kind of national switch that needs to be prevented.

The British nations don't follow the FIFA guidelines around switching nationality, we insist that, for a player to become "English" he must have spent at least 5 years, prior to the age of 18, in education within the British Isles. So the player must have been on British soil from at least the age of 13, probably earlier than that. At least with that distinction the player must have spent some of their formative years, as a child, growing up and learning about this country whilst also living within it. I'm happy with that rule. Januzaj doesn't qualify under those rules (he only moved to England in 2011 at age 16) so, unless the English FA has a change of heart, it doesn't matter how much Hodgson watches him, or how much he wants to be English, he'll never be eligible for us to pick under our own rules.

im indian, born in england.

that makes me as eligible to play for england as any other man born in england.

my parents are born in india so given the talent (which i haven't been) at any sport for example cricket, i should be able to play for either england or india. england as i'm born here and india as my parents are born there.

if its true that kevin peitersons mum was born in england, then that effectively makes him half english and perfectly entitled to play for england.

i would say that those 2 are the only reasons in my opinion that anybody should be able to represent any given country. to represent a country because you've lived there for a long time is (again in my opinion) ridiculous.

what is the point of national sports if it is made up of people from all over the world who are neither born here or have parents that were born here?
there has to be some kind of legitimate attachment to the country.

at the end of the day it should be like family, you can't pick and choose. if your born in a particular country you represent that country or the country your parents were born in. either that or nothing.

put it this way, do you think jacuzzi would think twice about playing for england if he was spanish? would arteta have ever have considered playing for england if he was in the spanish team?

the simple fact is that most of those people only consider england because they aren't good enough for their own countries or vice versa their own countries aren't good enough for them. but as i said you shouldn't be able to pick and choose.

and to answer your question on mo farrah, hes a legend, an arsenal fan like myself, seems like a really nice bloke, great role model and ambassador, but the simple facts are that he's NOT ENGLISH if he wasn't either born in this country or doesn't have parents that were born in this country. therefore he shouldn't be allowed to represent england as other then the fact hes lived here, he has no claim to being english.

I fully understood Wilshere's point of view, I just don't agree with it. If you are born in a foreign country, then as a very small child, come to Britain and spend your entire life here, then you're British in my opinion. Lets take an extreme example, you have a bloke born in Nigeria (to Nigerian parents), the very next day his family move to London. It's now 30 years later, he's a 30 year old man who has spent 30 years living in London. His entire education, childhood (minus 1 day) and adulthood has been spent in England. He's never left this countries shores, he's never even applied for a passport. In your opinion this man is a Nigerian, and can only ever represent Nigeria at any kind of sporting event, based solely on the fact he happened to be born in Nigeria to Nigerian parents and spent 1 day, as a newborn baby, living in Nigeria. Can you not see how that's a ridiculous position to try and defend? Had he spent 29 years, from birth, living in Nigeria, and only moved to the UK last year then, yes, he's a Nigerian and can't represent Britain, but to deny him the right to represent the country he has always called home based on a technicality is very narrow minded.
 
This makes me think of Zola Budd, Robert Maxwell dreamed up the scheme to get her into the GB olympic team based on one of her grandparents being born here. She cared nothing for Britain, it was a flag of convenience as South Africa was barred because of its apartied policies and there was a perception that british track and field was short of talent. In the end she collided with Mary Decker during the race, hurt herself and finished last. The current FIFA rules are rubbish and should be tightened up, this lad is only here because the rags offered him a job and I doubt he has any afinity with the country, if he is allowed to qualify for England the danger is it would just be another flag of convenience.
 
lyonfish said:
This makes me think of Zola Budd, Robert Maxwell dreamed up the scheme to get her into the GB olympic team based on one of her grandparents being born here. She cared nothing for Britain, it was a flag of convenience as South Africa was barred because of its apartied policies and there was a perception that british track and field was short of talent. In the end she collided with Mary Decker during the race, hurt herself and finished last. The current FIFA rules are rubbish and should be tightened up, this lad is only here because the rags offered him a job and I doubt he has any afinity with the country, if he is allowed to qualify for England the danger is it would just be another flag of convenience.
I agree that the rules need to be tightened up, I just don't agree with Wilshere's very black and white version, that you need to be born here, or have a parent born here, anythign else is irrelevant. Why should someone who has never set foot in Britain, but has a British mother, be eligible to represent Britain, but a man who has spent almost his entire life here, but happened to be born abroad to foreign parents, has no right to represent Britain?
 
lyonfish said:
This makes me think of Zola Budd, Robert Maxwell dreamed up the scheme to get her into the GB olympic team based on one of her grandparents being born here. She cared nothing for Britain, it was a flag of convenience as South Africa was barred because of its apartied policies and there was a perception that british track and field was short of talent. In the end she collided with Mary Decker during the race, hurt herself and finished last. The current FIFA rules are rubbish and should be tightened up, this lad is only here because the rags offered him a job and I doubt he has any afinity with the country, if he is allowed to qualify for England the danger is it would just be another flag of convenience.

You say you doubt he has any affinity to the country but to prove he has he would have to wait 5 years whilst other countries are banging on his door and not crappy little teams either. Belgium will have a team to rival anyones soon- would that not prove it?
 
StrangewaysHereWeCome said:
johnny on the spot said:
CTID1988 said:
Bit of a sensationalist thread title, are you trying to imply he is being racist?
He is right, to play for the England national team you should be English...its a no brainer

I'm not calling him racist, it's just how the BBC are reporting it.

Za3ob6V.png
Love the picture they've selected. "I'm white! look I'm touching my white skin with a slightly gormless expression on my face" Good ol' BBC.

Whiter than white they are.

Bet they were looking for one where he was wiping sweat from his brow with upper arm. Seig Heil.
 
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.goal.com/en/news/2377/top-10/2010/09/05/2104149/top-10-players-to-play-against-the-country-of-their-birth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.goal.com/en/news/2377/top-10 ... heir-birth</a>
 
stony said:
oakiecokie said:
And if you own an Irish Wolfhound you can play for ... ask Vinnie Jones how the fuck did he get to play for Wales ?

He once had a shit at Magor services on the M4. I believe he also used the filling station to buy some petrol, a Ginsters pasty and a bottle of Fanta too.
Over qualified if you asked me.

Vinnie O'JONES also considered playing for Rep of Ireland, before Wales
 

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