World Cup VAR

BlueHammer85 said:
can the manager use them 1-0 up in extra time, to review a throw in and then a minute later do the same again ?
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Ooo, now then, a question I have never been asked!!

In the context of a free flowing game of football, it is HIGHLY unlikely we get to a point of extra time with NO incidents.

But, in the event that that extremely unlikely scenario happens, sure if a manager wants to use unused 'challenges' for semantic reasons in extra time, it's up to them. Tennis players do the same thing. It wastes a few secs and changes nothing in those relative few secs.

After all, no one is attacking the goal directly at a throw-in.

It's a throw-in...
 
Bigga said:
Ooo, now then, a question I have never been asked!!

In the context of a free flowing game of football, it is HIGHLY unlikely we get to a point of extra time with NO incidents.

But, in the event that that extremely unlikely scenario happens, sure if a manager wants to use unused 'challenges' for semantic reasons in extra time, it's up to them. Tennis players do the same thing. It wastes a few secs and changes nothing in those relative few secs.

After all, no one is attacking the goal directly at a throw-in.

It's a throw-in...
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Yep. I like the concept
 
Neville Kneville said:
This is THE WORLD CUP!

It's not a friendly pre season tournament, for trying out experiments.

Well no that's not true actually, it fucking is & that's shocking.
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The rugby TMO today is not the same as the rugby TMO when it first came in. It has evolved from where it started as the rugby authorities tweaked and improve it.

Same as cricket, I believe that also has changed /developed since its inception,

Football had to start somewhere. It's proved the tech itself works, despite some teething problems in omitting referrals early on. It's corrected a significant amount of decisions, quickly and probably saved a few countries going home from the competition unfairly....

Is it perfect, no. And it will never be 100% perfect. But it's a vast improvement over the old system.... and will likely get better from here
 
Bigga said:
This is extremely illogical without the full context or specific example.

The goal itself was solid and so was the lead up.

Which City player committed a questionable foul...??
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Quite the only possible fouls in the build up to the Aguero goal is ON Balotelli as he holds up the ball.to pass to Aguero (the QPR defender is all over him - a foul anywhere else on the pitch) and the attempted trip on Aguero himself.
 
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Neville Kneville said:
My point is, that in a normall game, the refs will 'miss' or ignore lots of potential free kicks, pens, sending off incidents & sometimes it strongly appears as if they favour certain teams more than others, during the course of a season. That could be by accident, by subliminal influence or by design, or all 3.

We have seen this very clearly with Mike Dean, who seems to use all manner of decisions to book/penalise Raheem Sterling then lets off ten players for the identical action.

If we use that as an example, with v.a.r. there is nothing whatsoever to force Mike Dean to be in any way consistent in his rulings from one game to the next, but what he does have, is someone in his ear giving him extra opportunities to book Raheem Sterling, which he may have otherwise missed.

There has been no consistency with which decisions are subject to v.a.r. & no consistency in the outcome when decisions are reviewed. The exact same incident can have 3 different outcomes: no review, review & foul, review & no foul.

Therefore this gives refs the freedom to do exactly what the fuck they want & folks to go 'that's fine' because we now have v.a.r rather than, 'that's bollocks, he gave the opposite in the last game'' as would have been said previously.

It's a Clattenburg's dream.
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I'm lost with this post.... so you say the old non VAR system is open to abuse. Mike Dean under the old system picks on Sterling (I agree with you) either not giving fouls/pens or accuses him of diving when he's been clattered or booking him for the slightest thing, etc etc...

But your not willing to give VAR a chance to see if it improves things?

You actually MAYBE proved right. I doubt it, but you maybe right that VAR is used unfairly and I maybe very wrong thinking it will improve the current shocking level of refereeing. But let's at least give it a chance. The old system is that bad, surely it deserves a chance to see if it can improve things, no?
 
Bluearmy said:
The rugby TMO today is not the same as the rugby TMO when it first came in. It has evolved from where it started as the rugby authorities tweaked and improve it.

Same as cricket, I believe that also has changed /developed since its inception,

Football had to start somewhere. It's proved the tech itself works, despite some teething problems in omitting referrals early on. It's corrected a significant amount of decisions, quickly and probably saved a few countries going home from the competition unfairly....

Is it perfect, no. And it will never be 100% perfect. But it's a vast improvement over the old system.... and will likely get better from here
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Absolutely. Cricket is my other sport and the way TMO works now explains the results of the evaluation process to the fans at the game and the viewers so everyone knows what is going on.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Absolutely. Cricket is my other sport and the way TMO works now explains the results of the evaluation process to the fans at the game and the viewers so everyone knows what is going on.
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Yeah, I do think VAR can be improved further. Referals and keeping the fans better involved in what's going on, are two improvements I'd like to see over the current version. Can't believe we're 22 years behind rugby league in getting VAR and a long time behind Cricket too. Its frankly embarassing for the game...
 
Bluearmy said:
Yeah, I do think VAR can be improved further. Referals and keeping the fans better involved in what's going on, are two improvements I'd like to see over the current version. Can't believe we're 22 years behind rugby league in getting VAR and a long time behind Cricket too. Its frankly embarassing for the game...
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FIFA are discussing micing up the conversations between the VAR team and the match officials so that the crowd can hear them, that's the logical next step for me.
 
Bigga said:
I agree with this, but as has been said; this is not a VAR issue, not necessarily a ref issue, but it IS an enforcement and clear mandate of rule issue from FIFA.

'The letter of the law' is not administered by the referee, consistently enough and that's what's confusing everyone.

'Ball to hand' accepted or 'hand ball' regardless.

Leave it at that for me.
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But the refs are part of the system as are the people who tell them what to review, so it.is a v.a.r. thing.
 
Bluearmy said:
I'm lost with this post.... so you say the old non VAR system is open to abuse. Mike Dean under the old system picks on Sterling (I agree with you) either not giving fouls/pens or accuses him of diving when he's been clattered or booking him for the slightest thing, etc etc...

But your not willing to give VAR a chance to see if it improves things?

You actually MAYBE proved right. I doubt it, but you maybe right that VAR is used unfairly and I maybe very wrong thinking it will improve the current shocking level of refereeing. But let's at least give it a chance. The old system is that bad, surely it deserves a chance to see if it can improve things, no?
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It's simple, this system is easier to abuse than the old one & people are praising it, when it happens in front of them instead of calling it what it is; wrong.
 
Neville Kneville said:
But the refs are part of the system as are the people who tell them what to review, so it.is a v.a.r. thing.
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We'll have to agree to disagree, then.

Whilst I can understand that VAR is part of the system, it doesn't work by itself; it's a tool. So, for me, that becomes a separate issue.

The refs are also part of the system, but they're allowed to interpret the rules their way. If they're not pulled up about inconsistencies, they are not the problem.

So, therefore, it only leaves the logical conclusion that the head of the whole construction, which is FIFA, is at fault being the system itself.

In my opinion.

Neville Kneville said:
What about v.a.r. that didn't get used for one incident but did for another identical one ?
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I hear you.

Your argument against VAR has been what all of us has; it's the wrong system that's been applied.

We agree with the way the 'incident reviews' have happened. There's no argument there.

You want to argument the faults about this system, we want to talk about improving it.

So, here we are at cross purposes...
 
Neville Kneville said:
My point is, that in a normall game, the refs will 'miss' or ignore lots of potential free kicks, pens, sending off incidents & sometimes it strongly appears as if they favour certain teams more than others, during the course of a season. That could be by accident, by subliminal influence or by design, or all 3.

We have seen this very clearly with Mike Dean, who seems to use all manner of decisions to book/penalise Raheem Sterling then lets off ten players for the identical action.

If we use that as an example, with v.a.r. there is nothing whatsoever to force Mike Dean to be in any way consistent in his rulings from one game to the next, but what he does have, is someone in his ear giving him extra opportunities to book Raheem Sterling, which he may have otherwise missed.

There has been no consistency with which decisions are subject to v.a.r. & no consistency in the outcome when decisions are reviewed. The exact same incident can have 3 different outcomes: no review, review & foul, review & no foul.

Therefore this gives refs the freedom to do exactly what the fuck they want & folks to go 'that's fine' because we now have v.a.r rather than, 'that's bollocks, he gave the opposite in the last game'' as would have been said previously.

It's a Clattenburg's dream.
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Nope
Cause as soon as this starts happening, similar to the England game with the rugby tackles not given, the club will complain and be able to point out exactly where the ref has been biased and ignored var or used var to award fouls not usually given.

Rather than get an answer of oh the ref missed it, we'll be able to ask why var missed it on multiple occasions and have video evidence to back us up.
 
CharliesRightPeg said:
Nope
Cause as soon as this starts happening, similar to the England game with the rugby tackles not given, the club will complain and be able to point out exactly where the ref has been biased and ignored var or used var to award fouls not usually given.

Rather than get an answer of oh the ref missed it, we'll be able to ask why var missed it on multiple occasions and have video evidence to back us up.
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And every other club will be doing the same.

An England player clearly had his shirt pulled v Belgium.

Not a mention. They do what they want.
 
CharliesRightPeg said:
Nope
Cause as soon as this starts happening, similar to the England game with the rugby tackles not given, the club will complain and be able to point out exactly where the ref has been biased and ignored var or used var to award fouls not usually given.

Rather than get an answer of oh the ref missed it, we'll be able to ask why var missed it on multiple occasions and have video evidence to back us up.
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Agreed.

Not sure why the dissenters don't understand that VAR is evidence based!! It's almost like they think once an incident is reviewed or not, that's it.

No, it's on record, never to be scrubbed. The review body can use it to question a poor ref or we have a virtual live trial-by-TV!

Either way, it would be laid bare for everyone to see.

I remember when the extremely shortsighted Blatter said 'VAR is a nonsense and would leave nothing for fans to talk about'!!

What a dinosaur he was!
 
Bigga said:
Agreed.

Not sure why the dissenters don't understand that VAR is evidence based!! It's almost like they think once an incident is reviewed or not, that's it.

No, it's on record, never to be scrubbed. The review body can use it to question a poor ref or we have a virtual live trial-by-TV!

Either way, it would be laid bare for everyone to see.

I remember when the extremely shortsighted Blatter said 'VAR is a nonsense and would leave nothing for fans to talk about'!!

What a dinosaur he was!
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So what was the ref's verdict on the shirt pull on Griezmann just now ?

We will never know because yet again nobody told him it happened.
 
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