World Cup VAR

Bluearmy said:
In just can't work for pens??? There's been 10 examples where it has. Where it's fallen down is where VAR didn't kick in for some strange reason (Kane, argies, Serbia). The VAR tech itself clearly shows the original decisions were incorrect. That's the area which needs addressing....

Case in point Columbia v Senegal just now. Refs gives a subjective decision to award a penalty... anyone with one brain cell can see from the replay it's the tackle of the tournament and the ref in his subjective opinion made an error. I'm not blaming the ref, from his angle it's understandable why he possibly thinks it's a pen. However, VAR in a few seconds clearly shows a better angle, that the tackle is superb. Ref sees this and agrees, no penalty. ITS THE REF WHO DECIDES HES MADE AN ERROR, SO WHATS THE ISSUE. He's changed his original subjective decision, to a better one with more evidence and less subjectivity. Perfect use of VAR and no team is cheated from an incorrect initial SUBJECTIVE decision. If subjectivity is your big issue, you should prefer VAR because it's less subjective than the old way of doing things...

As I said previously, the old system is subjective. The new system is subjective, just less so. So to favour one over the other because of subjectivity is ludicrous...

The issue has been it's not been consistently utilised. That's the area where it needs to improve. Seems to be improving as the tournament goes on, which is good to see. Works perfectly on Pens for 90% of decisions. Which is a vast improvement over the inept subjective existing corrupt system...
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well said. How harsh on the player would it have been had the penalty been given, and as you say from the Refs view that is a penalty - it's a joke how many years we've just accepted this.
 
What the fuck are people talking about here ?

So far, many of the v.a.r. decisions given have been debated afterwards, some even by referees, & there has been disagreement about the correctness of the decision.

Also, loads of similar incidents have been allowed to go, without the ref being warned about it being a worth a possible v.a.r. decision.

It's been more inconsistent than the refs.
 
Neville Kneville said:
What the fuck are people talking about here ?

So far, many of the v.a.r. decisions given have been debated afterwards, some even by referees, & there has been disagreement about the correctness of the decision.

Also, loads of similar incidents have been allowed to go, without the ref being warned about it being a worth a possible v.a.r. decision.

It's been more inconsistent than the refs.
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Which decisions where VAR has changed a decision have been hugely controversial? The only ones I recall are the handballs. this isn't a VAR issue as such. But an issue with the understanding of the laws. Remember it's the actual ref that gets a clearer view from the VAR and then they decided to award penalties for those handballs. The issue is around the understanding of the handball law and not VAR.

However if you weren't talking about those incidents, please enlighten us.

It's fair to say early in the tournament, some decisions were missed. That area needed addressing and it looks to have been.
 
Bluearmy said:
Which decisions where VAR has changed a decision have been hugely controversial? The only ones I recall are the handballs. this isn't a VAR issue as such. But an issue with the understanding of the laws. Remember it's the actual ref that gets a clearer view from the VAR and then they decided to award penalties for those handballs. The issue is around the understanding of the handball law and not VAR.

However if you weren't talking about those incidents, please enlighten us.

It's fair to say early in the tournament, some decisions were missed. That area needed addressing and it looks to have been.
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Half the major decisions have been wrong in context of other games imo. Ones where v.a.r. has been used & ones where it hasn't.
If they are using replays, all similar incidents should have v.a.r. & all v.a.r. decisions should be consistent.

To ignore an incident in one game & review an identical one in another, is just not right at all. And to give a pen for one incident then not even review a similar one is seriously not on & leaves the game absolutely wide open for corruption.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Half the major decisions have been wrong in context of other games imo. Ones where v.a.r. has been used & ones where it hasn't.
If they are using replays, all similar incidents should have v.a.r. & all v.a.r. decisions should be consistent.

To ignore an incident in one game & review an identical one in another, is just not right at all. And to give a pen for one incident then not even review a similar one is seriously not on & leaves the game absolutely wide open for corruption.
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Half..? Name them please.... the IFAB have stated there were 16 VAR reviews in the group stages before tonight's games and all but 1, the Iran penalty were called correct. That's a 94% ish success rate. A 94% success rate. But in you opinion half were wrong....

We agree some incidents were missed, I named them (Kane, Argies non pen, Serbia non Pen) and that's not ideal. But it's got far more correct, than not and they've improved the consistency already since the first round of games.

The 2 incidents for the Korea goal and Senegal non penalty were brilliant and corrected two huge mistakes which would have probably sent countries home from the World Cup totally unfairly.... it's a disgrace we've put up with the existing system as long as we have...
 
caseball said:
But they don't have to appeal. They can choose not to. The whole team and staff would have to sit down and sort out an approach to appeals. Some would come up with an intelligent strategy and others not. Those groups would eventually have to get smart or keep on suffering. The problem with VAR as it is, is that it is just an uberref. Cheat, bitch, and moan and eventually we'll go to the big ref. By allowing the boys in the backroom to interfere behind the scenes and communicate with the ref, they undermine the ref and give the boys in the box enough oxygen to take on a life of their own. Now we're not quite sure who's running the game. Just like the incident with Aguero, Taylor and Luiz. They will start influencing games off their own bat. It's human nature. Leave it up to the players and coaches to ask for its help, strictly limit their access to it, and you'll eventually get a responsible, sensible use of VAR based on self-interest. After all, it's a competitive sport and they all get more money if they win. I'd also allow teams to cite officials who they feel have not interpreted the laws correctly on a VAR appeal. And ban the official in question if it proves to be the case. Some professional separation of on-pitch and off-pitch officials is necessary as well.
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stonerblue said:
Which player 'asks' for a review? The captain, the player who's been fouled, the fouler, the manager ??
And once all reviews have been used up what happens then. Does the diving, cheating and tumbling suddenly start again until full time?
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As I've said numerous times, 2 challenges; either or captain/ manager. They decide on that.

As for the 'diving' carrying on after challenges finishing? Totally up to the ref.

Everything I've ever said for the last 8 years encapsulated by @caseball's magnificent post with an addition I hadn't even though of about action against incompetent refs!

Bravo, sir!

1470220403-obama-mic-drop.gif
 
Bluearmy said:
Half..? Name them please.... the IFAB have stated there were 16 VAR reviews in the group stages before tonight's games and all but 1, the Iran penalty were called correct. That's a 94% ish success rate. A 94% success rate. But in you opinion half were wrong....

We agree some incidents were missed, I named them (Kane, Argies non pen, Serbia non Pen) and that's not ideal. But it's got far more correct, than not and they've improved the consistency already since the first round of games.

The 2 incidents for the Korea goal and Senegal non penalty were brilliant and corrected two huge mistakes which would have probably sent countries home from the World Cup totally unfairly.... it's a disgrace we've put up with the existing system as long as we have...
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100%

It’s shown how many times we’ve allowed the Ref to call a wrong decision and accept it.
 
BlueAnorak said:
This.
I think its much better and it has shown that the handball rule needs attention.
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This is a good point... VAR is already driving that discussion. For years we've seen the same type of handball incidents in 2 different games, been given 2 different ways. And we've just put up with it....

If it helps get clear guidance on how the laws are to be applied, then that's another added bonus on top of all the correct decisions it will bring.
 
Collina is holding a press conference tommorow to report back to the media on VAR positives and negatives. How refreshing.
 
Bluearmy said:
Half..? Name them please.... the IFAB have stated there were 16 VAR reviews in the group stages before tonight's games and all but 1, the Iran penalty were called correct. That's a 94% ish success rate. A 94% success rate. But in you opinion half were wrong....

We agree some incidents were missed, I named them (Kane, Argies non pen, Serbia non Pen) and that's not ideal. But it's got far more correct, than not and they've improved the consistency already since the first round of games.

The 2 incidents for the Korea goal and Senegal non penalty were brilliant and corrected two huge mistakes which would have probably sent countries home from the World Cup totally unfairly.... it's a disgrace we've put up with the existing system as long as we have...
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94%...biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard but that's IFAB covering their back. It's been applied a lot better though these past few games but the standard of refereeing in this penalty cup has been shocking.
 
Bluearmy said:
Half..? Name them please.... the IFAB have stated there were 16 VAR reviews in the group stages before tonight's games and all but 1, the Iran penalty were called correct. That's a 94% ish success rate. A 94% success rate. But in you opinion half were wrong....

We agree some incidents were missed, I named them (Kane, Argies non pen, Serbia non Pen) and that's not ideal. But it's got far more correct, than not and they've improved the consistency already since the first round of games.

The 2 incidents for the Korea goal and Senegal non penalty were brilliant and corrected two huge mistakes which would have probably sent countries home from the World Cup totally unfairly.... it's a disgrace we've put up with the existing system as long as we have...
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Simple enough: if Ronaldo's first pen, is a pen, fine. Then several others were wrong. If the pens given for holding wre correct, then ten or fifteen others were wrong.

You've seen it, I don't need to mention any more instances.

I have made the point all along, since the Liverpool game where a soft pen was given to Salah, but a worse 'pulling' incident ignored, in the lead up to WBA having a goal disallowed, that I am not against the idea of a v.a.r. system, if it can be made to work properly, I am against incompetent, inconsistent, & bent peple operating one.

What we have seen so far in the World Cup, is a load more penalties given, which normally wouldn't be & a load of identical penalties not given.

Normally we would be calling it out as bad/inconsistent/bent refereeing, but because it's v.a.r. & people have been asking for it to be brought in, usually sane people are welocoming this game changing fiasco as a success.

Wheras others, are just happy to have a random pile of utter nonsense added, as it's 'entertainment'.

Let's have 4 quarters rather than two halves as well & a penalty shoot out after each draw.
 
Bluearmy said:
This is a good point... VAR is already driving that discussion. For years we've seen the same type of handball incidents in 2 different games, been given 2 different ways. And we've just put up with it....

If it helps get clear guidance on how the laws are to be applied, then that's another added bonus on top of all the correct decisions it will bring.
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And all the identical decisions it will fail to give, such as with handball.
 
Shirt pulling is usually given as a penalty.

In the England/Belgium game, one of the England players had his shirt significantly pulled, at a set piece.

They decided not to bother about it.

They could at any time, in any game, decide to give the same thing as a pen: WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.

Do you not get this ?
 
If he wanted to why not? The clock stops both times and if the other team get a dodgy penalty afterwards, he's fucked himself over trying to be clever. His team's gone out of the Champions League on the away goals rule because he wanted to contest two throw ins to waste time that he couldn't waste. I'd fire the daft twat if I was his boss for costing me millions in potential earnings.
 
Bluearmy said:
Half..? Name them please.... the IFAB have stated there were 16 VAR reviews in the group stages before tonight's games and all but 1, the Iran penalty were called correct. That's a 94% ish success rate. A 94% success rate. But in you opinion half were wrong....

We agree some incidents were missed, I named them (Kane, Argies non pen, Serbia non Pen) and that's not ideal. But it's got far more correct, than not and they've improved the consistency already since the first round of games.

The 2 incidents for the Korea goal and Senegal non penalty were brilliant and corrected two huge mistakes which would have probably sent countries home from the World Cup totally unfairly.... it's a disgrace we've put up with the existing system as long as we have...
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Yep ^^
 
Neville Kneville said:
Shirt pulling is usually given as a penalty.

In the England/Belgium game, one of the England players had his shirt significantly pulled, at a set piece.

They decided not to bother about it.

They could at any time, in any game, decide to give the same thing as a pen: WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.

Do you not get this ?
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In general, I'm all for VAR but this is the glaring pitfall of the current system and it's the main area they need to address.

The only workable solution seems to be the introduction of challenges, perhaps as an add-on to the current version rather than as a replacement.
 
http://m.france24.com/en/20180629-var-checked-335-incidents-world-cup-group-stage-fifa
(AFP) -
FIFA said video assistant referee (VAR) crews conducted checks on 335 incidents during the World Cup group stage, helping achieve a 99.3 percent rate of correct decisions.


"335 incidents were checked by the VAR team. All the goals scored (122) were checked by the VAR, and in addition many other incidents occurring on the field," Pierluigi Collina, the chairman of FIFA's referees committee, said Friday.

With 48 matches in the group stage, the figure averages out to almost seven incidents per game in Russia.

"Within these 335 checks, we had 17 so-called VAR reviews," said Collina. "We had 14 decisions changed by the intervention of the VAR.

"We had 14 on-field reviews, with the referee going to the monitor on the side of the pitch, while there were three decisions taken only by the VAR on direct review."

Collina said the three cases where the VAR directly intervened were for an offside call, an incident that took place inside the area and mistaken identity.
 
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