BlueHammer85
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- 13 Oct 2010
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World Cup VAR
- Thread starter stonerblue
- Start date
Barcon
Well-Known Member
If he wanted to why not? The clock stops both times and if the other team get a dodgy penalty afterwards, he's fucked himself over trying to be clever. His team's gone out of the Champions League on the away goals rule because he wanted to contest two throw ins to waste time that he couldn't waste. I'd fire the daft twat if I was his boss for costing me millions in potential earnings.
How has he fucked himself over if the clock is stopped?
M
M
mat
Guest
I agree.it's been brilliant
It's made the right calls at the right time. A wonderful added element levelling out the the big boys decisions.
100% with you on this, people believe it will stop certain teams getting vitalgame changing decisions, it could be the complete opposite .Shirt pulling is usually given as a penalty.
In the England/Belgium game, one of the England players had his shirt significantly pulled, at a set piece.
They decided not to bother about it.
They could at any time, in any game, decide to give the same thing as a pen: WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.
Do you not get this ?
D
D
Deleted member 77198
Guest
Spot on pal!Half..? Name them please.... the IFAB have stated there were 16 VAR reviews in the group stages before tonight's games and all but 1, the Iran penalty were called correct. That's a 94% ish success rate. A 94% success rate. But in you opinion half were wrong....
We agree some incidents were missed, I named them (Kane, Argies non pen, Serbia non Pen) and that's not ideal. But it's got far more correct, than not and they've improved the consistency already since the first round of games.
The 2 incidents for the Korea goal and Senegal non penalty were brilliant and corrected two huge mistakes which would have probably sent countries home from the World Cup totally unfairly.... it's a disgrace we've put up with the existing system as long as we have...
Super League brought in the video ref in 1996. Let that sink in for a second... the parochial M62 working class sport of rugby league which has struggled money-wise for a good while now brought in video technology TWENTY TWO years ago!; football, the world’s biggest and richest sport are only just getting through a trial period for it now, in 2018!
It’s almost unbelievable when you read that back.
The sport has been crying out for it for decades and the fact it’s only coming in now shows how far behind other sports footy is despite the money washing around it (it’s not the only thing it’s been behind other sports in over the years).
The non-video ref “guessing” system that’s always been in place is/was always fucking awful! How can you rely on one to three peoples’ one veto of something from one to three angles at pitch level to get decisions correct for 90 minutes of action?
One example of it being ESSENTIAL:, the linesman flagged the South Korea opener the other day offside, what if Germany had gone up the other end and scored and gone through? That would have been a travesty for Mexico. But in the old “guess” refereeing system, that’s what could have happened.
VAR is fantastic and should have been in this spirt DECADES ago!
94%...biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard but that's IFAB covering their back. It's been applied a lot better though these past few games but the standard of refereeing in this penalty cup has been shocking.
Ok, please name the specific ones out of the 17 VAR reviews which have taken place during the Group stages, which were incorrect? Apart from the Iran penalty already mentioned..... otherwise the above is just hyperbole....
The standard of refereeing in this penalty cup as you put it, Is consistent with the standard of refereeing for the last 30 years..... it's the whole point why VAR is desperately needed...
And all the identical decisions it will fail to give, such as with handball.
Not sure what you arguing about here
Simple enough: if Ronaldo's first pen, is a pen, fine. Then several others were wrong. If the pens given for holding wre correct, then ten or fifteen others were wrong.
You've seen it, I don't need to mention any more instances.
I have made the point all along, since the Liverpool game where a soft pen was given to Salah, but a worse 'pulling' incident ignored, in the lead up to WBA having a goal disallowed, that I am not against the idea of a v.a.r. system, if it can be made to work properly, I am against incompetent, inconsistent, & bent peple operating one.
What we have seen so far in the World Cup, is a load more penalties given, which normally wouldn't be & a load of identical penalties not given.
Normally we would be calling it out as bad/inconsistent/bent refereeing, but because it's v.a.r. & people have been asking for it to be brought in, usually sane people are welocoming this game changing fiasco as a success.
Wheras others, are just happy to have a random pile of utter nonsense added, as it's 'entertainment'.
Let's have 4 quarters rather than two halves as well & a penalty shoot out after each draw.
It's been a success in the main. Not perfect, but a vast improvement.... you can't see that, fair enough.
Shirt pulling is usually given as a penalty.
In the England/Belgium game, one of the England players had his shirt significantly pulled, at a set piece.
They decided not to bother about it.
They could at any time, in any game, decide to give the same thing as a pen: WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.
Do you not get this ?
If this is directed at me, I've told you multiple times there needs to be a 2 referral system introduced also. Which puts above to bed. Next....
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
Spot on pal!
Super League brought in the video ref in 1996. Let that sink in for a second... the parochial M62 working class sport of rugby league which has struggled money-wise for a good while now brought in video technology TWENTY TWO years ago!; football, the world’s biggest and richest sport are only just getting through a trial period for it now, in 2018!
It’s almost unbelievable when you read that back.
The sport has been crying out for it for decades and the fact it’s only coming in now shows how far behind other sports footy is despite the money washing around it (it’s not the only thing it’s been behind other sports in over the years).
The non-video ref “guessing” system that’s always been in place is/was always fucking awful! How can you rely on one to three peoples’ one veto of something from one to three angles at pitch level to get decisions correct for 90 minutes of action?
One example of it being ESSENTIAL:, the linesman flagged the South Korea opener the other day offside, what if Germany had gone up the other end and scored and gone through? That would have been a travesty for Mexico. But in the old “guess” refereeing system, that’s what could have happened.
VAR is fantastic and should have been in this spirt DECADES ago!
Good post. I’m hugely in favour of VAR, because primarily it should cut down on some of the reffing decisions that are clearly wrong or have been genuinely missed. In addition, while I’m not a full-on agenda-ist, I believe it should cut down on the decisions that go against us and it ought to expose refs who make decisions that are not just genuinely wrong but clearly biased.
However, it’s in it’s infancy and so far in this World Cup there are problems around which incidents get reviewed and question marks surround some of those that have been overturned. I can’t agree that the success rate is as high as they’re claiming. For me, after reviewing the footage for all 3 2nd half incidents in the Portugal v Iran game the ref arrived at the wrong decision in all of them. Neither penalty should’ve been given because they weren’t stonewallers (sure, we’ve seen them given), so the decisions should’ve remained with the on-field ref (no penalty), and Ronaldo should’ve been red carded for the elbow. Just because he didn’t do much damage, the intent was there and he should’ve been off. Booking him was a cop out.
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Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
If this is directed at me, I've told you multiple times there needs to be a 2 referral system introduced also. Which puts above to bed. Next....
Well there isn't one.
As you were.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
I agree.
It's made the right calls at the right time. A wonderful added element levelling out the the big boys decisions.
No it hasn't.
NorCalBlue
Well-Known Member
Not followed this entire line of discussion, so apologies if this is tangential to your argument, but inconsistencies like calling a foul for shirt pulling is a problem independent of VAR. Same with the 6-second rule for goalkeepers - that one's broken numerous times in every game and although I don't think I've ever seen it called at the top level, it certainly could be, and in a game-changing situation. Since it's clearly stated in the rules, it'd be hard to question it.Shirt pulling is usually given as a penalty.
In the England/Belgium game, one of the England players had his shirt significantly pulled, at a set piece.
They decided not to bother about it.
They could at any time, in any game, decide to give the same thing as a pen: WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.
Do you not get this ?
My hope is that the widespread use of VAR will bring these inconsistencies more to the fore, because it will no longer be possible, after the fact, to assume that the ref just didn't see the incident clearly (like shirt pulling). Then they'll hopefully either start upholding the rules - or if everyone's okay with a bit of shirt pulling now and again, they can write that into the next version, and we can all get the benefit of doing it. (same goes for holding people off with outstretched arms, especially when trying to let the ball run out of play, and any sort of grabbing at another player, either on or off the ball)
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Not followed this entire line of discussion, so apologies if this is tangential to your argument, but inconsistencies like calling a foul for shirt pulling is a problem independent of VAR. Same with the 6-second rule for goalkeepers - that one's broken numerous times in every game and although I don't think I've ever seen it called at the top level, it certainly could be, and in a game-changing situation. Since it's clearly stated in the rules, it'd be hard to question it.
My hope is that the widespread use of VAR will bring these inconsistencies more to the fore, because it will no longer be possible, after the fact, to assume that the ref just didn't see the incident clearly (like shirt pulling). Then they'll hopefully either start upholding the rules - or if everyone's okay with a bit of shirt pulling now and again, they can write that into the next version, and we can all get the benefit of doing it. (same goes for holding people off with outstretched arms, especially when trying to let the ball run out of play, and any sort of grabbing at another player, either on or off the ball)
My point is, that in a normall game, the refs will 'miss' or ignore lots of potential free kicks, pens, sending off incidents & sometimes it strongly appears as if they favour certain teams more than others, during the course of a season. That could be by accident, by subliminal influence or by design, or all 3.
We have seen this very clearly with Mike Dean, who seems to use all manner of decisions to book/penalise Raheem Sterling then lets off ten players for the identical action.
If we use that as an example, with v.a.r. there is nothing whatsoever to force Mike Dean to be in any way consistent in his rulings from one game to the next, but what he does have, is someone in his ear giving him extra opportunities to book Raheem Sterling, which he may have otherwise missed.
There has been no consistency with which decisions are subject to v.a.r. & no consistency in the outcome when decisions are reviewed. The exact same incident can have 3 different outcomes: no review, review & foul, review & no foul.
Therefore this gives refs the freedom to do exactly what the fuck they want & folks to go 'that's fine' because we now have v.a.r rather than, 'that's bollocks, he gave the opposite in the last game'' as would have been said previously.
It's a Clattenburg's dream.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
These are the best refs in the world , can you imagine the mess our shit refs will make of it ?
Also , I give you the Aguero moment ....scores , then everyone waits around while some shit ref decides if us or Utd have won the league , no, not for me .
This is extremely illogical without the full context or specific example.
The goal itself was solid and so was the lead up.
Which City player committed a questionable foul...??
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Is it getting it right '9 times out of 10' though?
Iran were awarded a penalty for a non-deliberate handball whilst no pen was awarded to Nigeria for virtually the same offence after both had been referred.
That's before we even start talking about the pens which weren't given to England in the Tunisia game whilst the same offence was punished in the Panama game.
It should have been far more accurate before it was introduced at a World Cup.
So, not been on for a day or two, but interestingly yesterday the National News report stats came out for this World Cup as 'ref without VAR 95% with VAR 99.3%'.
Interesting, non...?
Bigga
Well-Known Member
When it still relies on the ref to refer it or not it will never help City, the refs in England are incompetent/bent take your pick but they would make a complete & utter shambles here.
The euphoria of scoring a goal that we all love about football will be gone forever, the time it takes is another issue . I just complicates a simple game that should be the same game in div 3 as it is in the premier league , it makes football a tiered game & that’s wrong .
So, interestingly, I'm going agree with a little of your post.
Where we currently stand with VAR, I agree, this could never exist in the Prem. Never.
However, nobody that wants VAR, with an iota of sense, wants this version. It's a free-for-all right now and the Prem refs would take full advantage of that. Give control to the teams(not explaining how yet again!) and let them use it responsibly or let the ref run the game.
Now, top level football as a 'tiered game' is just par-for-the-course, surely?
Name me another athletic sport where the amateur game is EXACTLY like the professional one! At the 'top level', all sport refer to some kind of tech on hand to sort out differences.
Please do not romance that football 'should be different' when it has fallen badly behind and is open, clearly, to bad decision making and corruption.
Well there isn't one.
As you were.
Yes, because the the rugby equivalent is exactly the same today as it was when it was introduced and has never been improved...
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Yes, because the the rugby equivalent is exactly the same today as it was when it was introduced and has never been improved...
This is THE WORLD CUP!
It's not a friendly pre season tournament, for trying out experiments.
Well no that's not true actually, it fucking is & that's shocking.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Really ? Subjective means some think it's a pen and others don't ! There s been loads of decisions that have been subject to the whims of whether the VAR panel think it's a pen or not and loads that haven't been given that many disagree with. It's a farce in terms of pens because it's just a matter of opinion. How many times do we have to say that !? It just can't work for pens. Offside and where an incident takes place yes but pens never.
Can you finally clear up what you mean about 'subjective penalty decisions'? We know what you mean about it being 50/ 50 BUT what you fail to mention is what to do about it?
You're suggesting not to use VAR.
Okay.
What now? Let the ref make a decision? Would he not be going off 'gut instincts'...?
And if that's the case, what's your argument against VAR, then???
You constantly pose complaints with no logical alternative...
It just can't work for pens??? There's been 10 examples where it has. Where it's fallen down is where VAR didn't kick in for some strange reason (Kane, argies, Serbia). The VAR tech itself clearly shows the original decisions were incorrect. That's the area which needs addressing....
Case in point Columbia v Senegal just now. Refs gives a subjective decision to award a penalty... anyone with one brain cell can see from the replay it's the tackle of the tournament and the ref in his subjective opinion made an error. I'm not blaming the ref, from his angle it's understandable why he possibly thinks it's a pen. However, VAR in a few seconds clearly shows a better angle, that the tackle is superb. Ref sees this and agrees, no penalty. ITS THE REF WHO DECIDES HES MADE AN ERROR, SO WHATS THE ISSUE. He's changed his original subjective decision, to a better one with more evidence and less subjectivity. Perfect use of VAR and no team is cheated from an incorrect initial SUBJECTIVE decision. If subjectivity is your big issue, you should prefer VAR because it's less subjective than the old way of doing things...
As I said previously, the old system is subjective. The new system is subjective, just less so. So to favour one over the other because of subjectivity is ludicrous...
The issue has been it's not been consistently utilised. That's the area where it needs to improve. Seems to be improving as the tournament goes on, which is good to see. Works perfectly on Pens for 90% of decisions. Which is a vast improvement over the inept subjective existing corrupt system...
Exactly!!
Can't see the supposed 'argument' on it.
I don't mind if he had logic attached, but there's nothing but suppositions that are easily easily countered 99% of the time.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Half the major decisions have been wrong in context of other games imo. Ones where v.a.r. has been used & ones where it hasn't.
If they are using replays, all similar incidents should have v.a.r. & all v.a.r. decisions should be consistent.
To ignore an incident in one game & review an identical one in another, is just not right at all. And to give a pen for one incident then not even review a similar one is seriously not on & leaves the game absolutely wide open for corruption.
I agree with this, but as has been said; this is not a VAR issue, not necessarily a ref issue, but it IS an enforcement and clear mandate of rule issue from FIFA.
'The letter of the law' is not administered by the referee, consistently enough and that's what's confusing everyone.
'Ball to hand' accepted or 'hand ball' regardless.
Leave it at that for me.