Hollywood Blue
Well-Known Member
Exactly Nev, if they’re not consistent with the VAR, then it’s pointless.
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World Cup VAR
- Thread starter stonerblue
- Start date
Hollywood Blue
Well-Known Member
Did VAR work on the headbutt?I don't understand this point that "...VAR was equally inept"...?
Well, that's an almost illogical viewpoint to start off with!
Are you talking about the video replay or video assisted refereeing??
By definition, the video replay cannot be 'inept' as it will show only the facts of what happened.
Any interpretation of the said 'facts' is subjective.
Did the VAR work when the defender dived in, tripping Lingard while making no contact with the ball?
We’ve seen other examples of it failing to do its job, a couple of occasions in England games.
I’m not against VAR, I just want to see consistency. I realize it’s early days, which is why I think the World Cup was a poor choice to test it out.
Hollywood Blue
Well-Known Member
For the record, we’ve had VAR for a year in the MLS and it’s been fairly inconsistent here as well.
I think it will ultimately prove to be a good thing, but it’s a lot more complicated than goal line technology.
But I suppose things can only improve.
We’ve seen a few no calls and we’ve seen a small percentage of calls that were wrong, but for the most part, it has worked.
I think it will ultimately prove to be a good thing, but it’s a lot more complicated than goal line technology.
But I suppose things can only improve.
We’ve seen a few no calls and we’ve seen a small percentage of calls that were wrong, but for the most part, it has worked.
The VAR isn't the biggest problem. It's the live stuff that sucks. Look at the game with England the other night. A team that couldn't play good football against a team that wouldn't play good football until they had to. The cheating, fouling, playacting and so on was seriously annoying and so was the failure to put a stop to it. Holding at corners could be resolved simply by changing the definition of a ball in play: once in the quadrant, it's live. Hold and it's a penalty without waiting for the kick. I think the response to VAR from some countries has been a football version of civil disobedience. Let's break the laws en masse and then they won't dare do anything about it. What you gonna do? Send us all off? They all know the ref has to abandon a game if one team ends up with six (change that one, as well, play with two if you want to be that stupid and watch your GD become a disaster). Anyway, there's only a few games to play before we all pack up and go home, so big deal. I know I'm on video swearing at the ref but so are 6 others. It'll very soon be forgotten and me and my mates, the ref and FIFA will be off the hook. That's another reason to go to referrals, appeals, whatever. No sane team would appeal their game to an abandonment. The national FAs and their relatively unknown coaches in the technical areas bear a lot of responsibility IMO. It'll all be over in a week or so and we can go back to real football where there are consequences to actions. I hope our FA gets smart enough to get VAR right. Dreaming I know. I'd be quite happy seeing the game reset with a version 2.0 but that sort of stuff doesn't happen anymore. This circus will soon be over for another four years.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Again, this is strange!!
You would only go home and complain should you be cheated of a pen the normal way, so now pens are correctly given, cos the refs are helped to see it, you complain anyway...??
*smh*
Except they are not correctly given.
They are given sometimes & ignored at other times, all with the help of video technology.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Did VAR work on the headbutt?
Did the VAR work when the defender dived in, tripping Lingard while making no contact with the ball?
We’ve seen other examples of it failing to do its job, a couple of occasions in England games.
I’m not against VAR, I just want to see consistency. I realize it’s early days, which is why I think the World Cup was a poor choice to test it out.
Well, yes VAR did 'work on the headbutt'. The player got a yellow. Henderson received the same as it was about the same severity of action.
As for Lingaard 'tripping', I think you saw an illusory effect of turf coming up around one of the player's boot (I can't remember which), but certainly no where near the contact you'd expect to take him down.
Nonsense acting, right decision.
Bigga
Well-Known Member
Except they are not correctly given.
They are given sometimes & ignored at other times, all with the help of video technology.
So, still for you it changes nothing? I guess you win with 'what's the point of VAR?', then?
Let's keep going back to using Human eyes to have a guess at what happened and hope for the best...
Bigga
Well-Known Member
So, at least from what I'm seeing on this thread, there is a gentle persuasion towards VAR, but just not the current version we're seeing.
Would the 2 challenge completely eradicate cheating? Well no, but it would make it a hell of a lot harder for players/ teams to do so.
Imagine diving and getting yourself sent off and your team struggles without the player needed on the pitch? You'd look a right cnut to the team afterwards! It's not like now, where you could 'dive' and potentially win your team the game!
Game management would be better as a result, players and managers would feel they have an actual say in the game.
I, honestly, think it would flow better knowing that players can't roll around on the floor as long if there's genuinely been no injury! Book them for play acting if it's referred to VAR!
I think there would be less prima donna shit and people get up, get on and play, letting their actual skills do the talking on the pitch!
I pray Collina and co, FIFA and co and whomever see the bigger picture and get this moving ASAP.
Would the 2 challenge completely eradicate cheating? Well no, but it would make it a hell of a lot harder for players/ teams to do so.
Imagine diving and getting yourself sent off and your team struggles without the player needed on the pitch? You'd look a right cnut to the team afterwards! It's not like now, where you could 'dive' and potentially win your team the game!
Game management would be better as a result, players and managers would feel they have an actual say in the game.
I, honestly, think it would flow better knowing that players can't roll around on the floor as long if there's genuinely been no injury! Book them for play acting if it's referred to VAR!
I think there would be less prima donna shit and people get up, get on and play, letting their actual skills do the talking on the pitch!
I pray Collina and co, FIFA and co and whomever see the bigger picture and get this moving ASAP.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
So, still for you it changes nothing? I guess you win with 'what's the point of VAR?', then?
Let's keep going back to using Human eyes to have a guess at what happened and hope for the best...
No.
I'd be totally happy with v.a.r. that worked, quickly.
This is just people controllig the outcome of games.
They could easily make sure Russia win the World Cup if they wanted & some people woulr cheer it on.
Like having Clattenburg for every game, with a free pass.
FlemishDuck
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 1,785
Any VAR system will always have a "margin of error". This margin of error will be the product of various human errors that can occur along the way besides technical limitations. As a result VAR will never be perfect but always just an addition to try to get an overall better result in correct arbitrage.
Technical limitations: You are limited by the amount of camera's you have and the amount of angles they cover aswell as the players they track. Some situations might be only visible from such an accute angle that it would have require hundreds of camera's positioned at as many angles possible to even be able to capture them. At that point you also need hundreds of monitors and loads of people watching it to be sure youre seeing something "as correct as it actually is". Furthermore, resolution as it is now is still limited. Granted high definition camera's can capure a very high resolution already, but it's not like we can zoom in to the very point in detail where contact might have been from an angle that would surely been "the perfect one" for it. Immagine a future where millions of tiny camera's are hovering trough the field withought colliding with the players trying to capture the practicly microscopic first point of contact. Imagine those same camera's connected to an intelligent system that can see the error in a fraction of a second. Imagine even perhaps that the system would be able to track muscledynamics of a player to the point that toghether with physics it could determine if the fall was as a result of the force excerted from another player or from the dynamics of the players own muscle's. That might be the VAR of the future and at the speed that technoligy moves today it's quite possible that we will actually witness this in our lives, or even soon enough. Immage resolutions tend to improve rather fast and one could lay a carpet of tiny camera's in a net above the playing field for a start. a grid of say a camera every 10 centimeters, thats about 4 inch in youre imperials afaik, that should quickly add up over youre average field size.
Human error: there is still a chain of humans where information has to pass trough and trough which decissions must be made. The more people are needed the more of these errors micht occur. Although its also relative, in a way the Var will make the arbitrage overal more correct but will also likely come to register its own shortcommings at points where its too late making it appear as failure rather than the natural margin of error to take in mind.
Automated sollutions shall need to make VAR more reliable in that regard as time goes on.
With the money at stake there is aslo a potential for corruption afcourse. It should be noted withought shame that FIFA a bad reputation in that regard. It must also be noted withought shame that Russia has a bad reputation when it regards cheating in sporting events. Im not saying that the current VAR at the wc is corrupt per se, but ill gladly emphasize that FIFA are corrupt rats and so is Russia in this regard. To avoid the rather possible chance of corruption in this system for obvious reasons it would be nice if next World cup would be held in a somewhat less corrupt enviroment.
Technical limitations: You are limited by the amount of camera's you have and the amount of angles they cover aswell as the players they track. Some situations might be only visible from such an accute angle that it would have require hundreds of camera's positioned at as many angles possible to even be able to capture them. At that point you also need hundreds of monitors and loads of people watching it to be sure youre seeing something "as correct as it actually is". Furthermore, resolution as it is now is still limited. Granted high definition camera's can capure a very high resolution already, but it's not like we can zoom in to the very point in detail where contact might have been from an angle that would surely been "the perfect one" for it. Immagine a future where millions of tiny camera's are hovering trough the field withought colliding with the players trying to capture the practicly microscopic first point of contact. Imagine those same camera's connected to an intelligent system that can see the error in a fraction of a second. Imagine even perhaps that the system would be able to track muscledynamics of a player to the point that toghether with physics it could determine if the fall was as a result of the force excerted from another player or from the dynamics of the players own muscle's. That might be the VAR of the future and at the speed that technoligy moves today it's quite possible that we will actually witness this in our lives, or even soon enough. Immage resolutions tend to improve rather fast and one could lay a carpet of tiny camera's in a net above the playing field for a start. a grid of say a camera every 10 centimeters, thats about 4 inch in youre imperials afaik, that should quickly add up over youre average field size.
Human error: there is still a chain of humans where information has to pass trough and trough which decissions must be made. The more people are needed the more of these errors micht occur. Although its also relative, in a way the Var will make the arbitrage overal more correct but will also likely come to register its own shortcommings at points where its too late making it appear as failure rather than the natural margin of error to take in mind.
Automated sollutions shall need to make VAR more reliable in that regard as time goes on.
With the money at stake there is aslo a potential for corruption afcourse. It should be noted withought shame that FIFA a bad reputation in that regard. It must also be noted withought shame that Russia has a bad reputation when it regards cheating in sporting events. Im not saying that the current VAR at the wc is corrupt per se, but ill gladly emphasize that FIFA are corrupt rats and so is Russia in this regard. To avoid the rather possible chance of corruption in this system for obvious reasons it would be nice if next World cup would be held in a somewhat less corrupt enviroment.