World Cup VAR

[Jalfraag]

Very quiet in here tonight. I can't imagine why.

 

[peter.evans]

Very quiet in here tonight. I can't imagine why.

VAR as selective as ever !

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

I wonder if they've got Russia down for the final or if too much money has gone on.

Obviously Brazil were not getting any help.

The 3 wise monkeys were obviously in charge, or is it 6? At least they didn't have full kit on tonight but still wankers.

 

[blueincy]

Vinny on Jesus deffo a penalty imho

Put it on the big screen in the stadiums not just at home ffs show the fans in the ground how corrupt the ****s are...

 

[Neville Kneville]

They spent a long time reviewing the Jesus pen.

The referee was not involved.

Why ?

 

[stonerblue]

LOL!!

Are you seriously comparing Barrios' 'head butt' to Zidane's??!! Laughable!!

That's like saying every foul should be a red!!

There are degrees of severity for all contact otherwise nobody would last on the pitch!!

Rubbish. A head butt on a football pitch is and always has been a straight red card, until var that is.

 

[stonerblue]

Not really, more like every headbutt should be a red...are you saying it shouldn't?

Correct.

 

[TheBlueDune]

They spent a long time reviewing the Jesus pen.

The referee was not involved.

Why ?

Could be that they decided there was no foul because when contact is made, the ball was already out of play and logically no foul because ball was dead.
VAR team check doesn't need ref to watch to agree with them. He'd already said no penalty.

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

VAR working fairly well in the world cup - some decisions are always going to be subjective so there's always going to be some disagreement.

I like that the VAR decisions are rapid - not interfering with the game - and though some decisions seem questionable to me, I think VAR has by-in-large got it right.
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As an aside - there's a way, given today's technology, to remove human bias variability from VAR. Simply convene a panel of those most well-respected referees, have them watch penalty decision videos and adjudge whether it's a penalty or not or to close to call. Save this data and use it to train an AI. Once sufficiently trained, make the AI available online and then use it in lieu of human VAR.
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This computer problem is likely harder than I've described as the input is video footage rather than a single frame of data which will likely pose new AI problems - nonetheless, it's my opinion that AI can reach/exceed the level of today's human VAR panels.

 

[Jalfraag]

VAR working fairly well in the world cup - some decisions are always going to be subjective so there's always going to be some disagreement.

I like that the VAR decisions are rapid - not interfering with the game - and though some decisions seem questionable to me, I think VAR has by-in-large got it right.
======
As an aside - there's a way, given today's technology, to remove human bias variability from VAR. Simply convene a panel of those most well-respected referees, have them watch penalty decision videos and adjudge whether it's a penalty or not or to close to call. Save this data and use it to train an AI. Once sufficiently trained, make the AI available online and then use it in lieu of human VAR.
=======
This computer problem is likely harder than I've described as the input is video footage rather than a single frame of data which will likely pose new AI problems - nonetheless, it's my opinion that AI can reach/exceed the level of today's human VAR panels.

Which well respected refs would you suggest we use in the PL?
There's already one of these panels that decides on retrospective action. Their decisions have been less than even-handed.

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

Which well respected refs would you suggest we use in the PL?
There's already one of these panels that decides on retrospective action. Their decisions have been less than even-handed.

I offer no particular refs from any league at all - I'm stating simply that a technical solution to this problem exists (or rather, could be developed).

 

[Marvin]

VAR working fairly well in the world cup - some decisions are always going to be subjective so there's always going to be some disagreement.

I like that the VAR decisions are rapid - not interfering with the game - and though some decisions seem questionable to me, I think VAR has by-in-large got it right.
======
As an aside - there's a way, given today's technology, to remove human bias variability from VAR. Simply convene a panel of those most well-respected referees, have them watch penalty decision videos and adjudge whether it's a penalty or not or to close to call. Save this data and use it to train an AI. Once sufficiently trained, make the AI available online and then use it in lieu of human VAR.
=======
This computer problem is likely harder than I've described as the input is video footage rather than a single frame of data which will likely pose new AI problems - nonetheless, it's my opinion that AI can reach/exceed the level of today's human VAR panels.

largely OK, but the Kompany / Jesus decision was wrong. Clearly a penalty. VAR has been better than I expected but refereeing has been ridiculously lenient.

Refs must have had some instruction not so send some players off unless it was extraordinary. South American fouling (Uruguay and Colombia was extraordinary) as has been the play acting. Surely VAR or video evidence can be used to deal with this?

 

[CityInWashingtonState]

largely OK, but the Kompany / Jesus decision was wrong. Clearly a penalty. VAR has been better than I expected but refereeing has been ridiculously lenient.

Refs must have had some instruction not so send some players off unless it was extraordinary. South American fouling (Uruguay and Colombia was extraordinary) as has been the play acting. Surely VAR or video evidence can be used to deal with this?

Agreed.

In real time I didn't think that Kompany committed a foul - but upon watching replays, I thought that it was. Not sure why VAR didn't overrule the onfield decision.

 

[Bigga]

VAR as selective as ever !

No, the system is fine. Even in this flawed state.

The interpretation is the problem.

Rubbish. A head butt on a football pitch is and always has been a straight red card, until var that is.

Not 'until VAR' at all. VAR hasn't changed the rules to be more lenient at all. Again, I can't seem to get it through to people that the IFAB/ FIFA people have made that decision for the WORLD CUP!!

Stop making up conspiracy theories to fit your extremely poor narrative!

Correct.

No, incorrect for the reasons above.

Could be that they decided there was no foul because when contact is made, the ball was already out of play and logically no foul because ball was dead.
VAR team check doesn't need ref to watch to agree with them. He'd already said no penalty.

Yeah, so I watched the same replay as everyone else.

Whilst my gut was screaming 'PEN!', my head was telling me Vin tried to pull out of the challenge (left leg retreats, right leg makes light contact). But, if you ACTUALLY watch the 'contact', in no way does it remove GJ's support leg; Gabriel 'jumps'. It's a beautifully timed jump, but it's a jump! In the laws we see in the Prem that would still be called 50/ 50 (Sterling non pens as 100% proof positive examples).

VAR has nothing to do with it.

Plus, as you say, GJ was never in control of the ball, at that point.

I think the ref went off gut instincts( with Neymar Jr solely to blame for the reasoning), but I think he got lucky that VAR agreed with his assessment.

 

[moomba]

VAR officials should only be advisory. The decision needs to be made by the ref.

If the system allows highly contentious decisions to be ruled on without the referee looking at the video and applying the interpretation he has used throughout the game it's fundamentally flawed.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Could be that they decided there was no foul because when contact is made, the ball was already out of play and logically no foul because ball was dead.
VAR team check doesn't need ref to watch to agree with them. He'd already said no penalty.

So the ref said 'no pen' v.a.r. said 'hang on a minute let's have a look' saw Kompany foul Jesus with the ball still in play & said 'yeah yr right' ?

 

[BlueAnorak]

largely OK, but the Kompany / Jesus decision was wrong. Clearly a penalty. VAR has been better than I expected but refereeing has been ridiculously lenient.

Refs must have had some instruction not so send some players off unless it was extraordinary. South American fouling (Uruguay and Colombia was extraordinary) as has been the play acting. Surely VAR or video evidence can be used to deal with this?

It probably was a penalty but VAR is not for determining whether it's a pen but to detect clear and obvious errors by the officials. I can see why it wasn't given so its not a clear and obvious error.

 

[Barcon]

So the ref said 'no pen' v.a.r. said 'hang on a minute let's have a look' saw Kompany foul Jesus with the ball still in play & said 'yeah yr right' ?

Correct.

 

[stonerblue]

No, the system is fine. Even in this flawed state.

The interpretation is the problem.



Not 'until VAR' at all. VAR hasn't changed the rules to be more lenient at all. Again, I can't seem to get it through to people that the IFAB/ FIFA people have made that decision for the WORLD CUP!!

Stop making up conspiracy theories to fit your extremely poor narrative!



No, incorrect for the reasons above.



Yeah, so I watched the same replay as everyone else.

Whilst my gut was screaming 'PEN!', my head was telling me Vin tried to pull out of the challenge (left leg retreats, right leg makes light contact). But, if you ACTUALLY watch the 'contact', in no way does it remove GJ's support leg; Gabriel 'jumps'. It's a beautifully timed jump, but it's a jump! In the laws we see in the Prem that would still be called 50/ 50 (Sterling non pens as 100% proof positive examples).

VAR has nothing to do with it.

Plus, as you say, GJ was never in control of the ball, at that point.

I think the ref went off gut instincts( with Neymar Jr solely to blame for the reasoning), but I think he got lucky that VAR agreed with his assessment.

I like the way you fail to address my original point (headbutt= red card) and spin some bollocks about 'conspiracy theories' and my 'narrative'.
I make a simple point yet you come out with that bollocks as deflection.
Like football, the point is simple. And just like var, you make it more complicated.

 

[Neville Kneville]

It probably was a penalty but VAR is not for determining whether it's a pen but to detect clear and obvious errors by the officials. I can see why it wasn't given so its not a clear and obvious error.

Nor were most of the ones it changed.