adrianr said:
Blueband Brother said:
adrianr said:
With all due respect mate, Yaya really isn't the best midfielder in the world. What's more pertinent however is if he will remain, what sort of player is best to partner him with? Midfield, like central defence, needs good players, but they ultimately must form a superior unit.
I think just not having his starting place contractually obligated should see an upturn in performance but who knows.
I disagree with your disagreement but agree that we can both agree to disagree in terms of yaya. He is one of the best players in the world (top 5) but the ability to show this is hampered by his almost pathogenic indolence and apparent disinterest. Sometimes it dawns on me that the reality and glaring truth that is been continuously dismissed in the subconscious of most but still keeps fighting for respect is this: Yaya toure is not a midfielder, he is a supporting striker. This is obviously up for debate and I still see him as a midfielder.
He is obviously talented enough to play midfield and even defense but he does not tackle, cannot track back and is a risk without strong midfield cover. Perhaps this is the only solution to the Yaya conundrum, play him upfront behind a striker with two attacking midfielders on either side then get solid unit of midfielders that can be at the center: Milner, Rodwell, and maybe bring in another top class player like, i dont know, people say Ferdinandinho but Im not sure.
Ill be glad if we go back for De Rossi.
Heh, fair enough. I'l be honest though, I'm not sure how you can consider him to be the top 5 midfielder in the world and go on to list his deficiencies, most of which are pretty critical for a good midfielder. This again though comes back to what I mean about being a unit of multiple players, and not just individual talent. Compare him with Busquets for example, the man who replaced him at Barca - He's more mobile, better stamina, better tackler, equally as good passer, but not as good getting forward and scoring crucial goals. Now which would you rather have in your team as a midfielder? I'd go with Busquets every single time. Because he's someone who's exceptionally good at something, and who can be paired with an opposite but complementary skill set. Dropping Yaya at Barca was one of the steps in the creation of one of the finest balanced club sides the world has ever seen. Even if we did what you say and play him as a support striker, is he really the best option in that position? Would he be better than Bale, for example? Or Hazard?
This is the critical problem with Yaya and why he (IMO) won't be in our best team. He's not as good as a deep lying playmaker as the best deep lying play makers, he's not as good as a defensive/holding midfielder as the best of those, and he's not as good as a attacking midfielders/support striker as the best of those. There was an article posted on here a little while back about the Yaya conundrum, which was shot down in flames, how can anyone criticise Yaya?! The man who scored the goals that won us the FA Cup?! But it hit the nail right on the head. He's a jack of all trades, but a master of none. And you have to pair him with a jack of all trades because to pair him with a speciality player will leave you short the opposite. That's why he was good with Barry (for a season at least) but we got dicked every time we came up against a properly assembled world class midfield.
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I don't consider him to be one of the top 5 midfielders in the world, I consider him to be among the 5 best players in the world. Talent and ability is one very important factor that determines productivity, recognition and respect. But there are also other invaluable factors as well.
The Toure shortcomings is due to his attitude, mentality and I suffice to say some physical inconveniences such as his weight but that has nothing to do with his abilities as a footballer
Yaya toure is one of the best passers in the world,in terms of accuracy, intricacy and range.He is the best in the premier league, even better than Silva. Silva has better close control and is perhaps more creative but yaya's efficiency, variety and cheer style of passing is better. I know this may sound alarming and nonsensical but let me make my case.
I have mentioned in a previous thread about Barcestylophrenia, This is a phrase I came up with and I defined it a psychological disorder induced by innate underlying convictions and stereotypes and cheer admiration of the barcelona mantra and sucess over the past half a decade. This also includes admiration of their style of football and their
kind and that's the objective word- kind of players.This has made clubs and fans wish and plan to emulate this structure and now consider it as the ideal mantra and approach for success, whilst abandoning the reality of playing to your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses as the real key to success.. This psychological problem (as I see it) or mentality is now spreading and is affecting how we assess and qualify the talents and capacities of footballers. This ideology has also been promoted by the media and they have played their role in slowly but surely changing the mentality of club owners, football fans and observers certainly in Europe but also other players of the world.
Apparently the ability of a footballer in this warped new way of thinking is now based on the kind, that is the appearance of the player rather than the actual talents of the player, which can easily be inferred by simple and clear minded observation.Apparently people now say whether a player is a holding midfielder or a creative attacking midfielder by just looking at him. Those folks that say that hazard, nasri (lol!!), mata, and other players of that kind are better passers and more creative that yaya has unfortunately, consciously or not, fallen prey to this change in mentality, this disease. This is a much bigger issue and it goes into more controversial social angles but Ill leave at this for now.
Yaya has an incredible touch and his finishing as as good a most of the best strikers in the world.Although I have remonstrated about his attitude and work ethic on the pitch, he is still versatile and his talent affords him the comfort of playing in positions all over the pitch without looking out of place.
Yaya is clutch. He has the mental strength, fortitude and spirit to deliver in big moments and matches. Once again when he really wants to.
Yaya has unique and almost deceptive pace and incredible strength. This is well known and it fits in well with this new mentality in player perception that I talked about earlier so I am certain that people will be very eager to highlight the fact that yaya has "pace and power" as that is usually what most minds are willing to permit when giving out compliments and accessing his worth.
My angle is that he is as creative, intelligent and versatile as those 'kind' even more so,with the exception of a few such as Pirlo, Iniesta perhaps and even Silva but he also takes his worth and capacity to another level with his physicality.He is a very rare case where cliche actually become reality and the phrase 'the complete package' actually live up to the name.
I'm talking about his footballing abilities of course but as I have said his attitude and industry on the pitch is not the best and this may be why, with other things I have hinted to, he is not acknowledged for who he is- an absolute beast of a footballer.
Messi and Ronaldo are exceptional and are at are higher level. Below that you have Yaya, Iniesta, Bale and one or two others.
I am making a case for why I think he is one of the best in the world and I am absolutely certain of this. You mentioned harzard, who in my opinion is the epitome of the media -driven new ideology of player appearance mirroring player abilities and he has been used as a face for this new ideology. I mean the media cant get enough of him and this positive image has impressed on football fans, reflected in the widespread high esteem he is held in the public in terms of his footballing abilities. Dont get me wrong, Hazard is a good footballer and is probably going to be world class but he is not in the same level as yaya, not even close. You also mentioned Sergio bosquets, perhaps he is a better tackler than yaya but that is a close one.But Yaya is simply in a different level to busquets
All these comparisons people are making to yaya is absolutely scandalous and symptomatic of the distorted perceptions of footballers.
I will predict that most people may find all what I've said ridiculous and borderline offensive but that in some way will prove my point. However I am in no way insinuating that you have this mentality but I'm simply highlighting what I believe to be an unfortunate reality of football nowadays.
Notwithstanding, The bottom line is that Yaya Toure is an invaluable asset when he wants to but a frustrating liability when he cant be bothered and this is down to his erratic and ultimately inappropriate attitude and approach rather than his talent as one of the world's finest.
