Yaya

[fatbloke]

Maybe, but what if KDB or Sterling have one of their fairly frequent off-days? You're losing a match winner and replacing him with an energetic but fairly mediocre player.

When you lose 'ability' in the middle in favour of 'solidarity and energy' it hinders the other technical players in the team because firstly, they have nobody to help them control the game through possession, and secondly teams can easily double up on them knowing they don't really have to focus on Fernando, Fernandinho or Delph because neither will hurt you with the ball.

Do you not think some of our forward players look scared, ok maybe scared is too strong a word, maybe hesitant in possession? Always looking for the safe pass rather than expressing themselves and committing defenders.

Now, look at it from another point of view. The team is so unbalanced with Yaya in central midfield and so vulnerable to counter attacks, do you not think that hesitation or fear of losing possession stems from that lack of confidence in the rest of the teams ability to regain possession?

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Do you not think some of our forward players look scared, ok maybe scared is too strong a word, maybe hesitant in possession? Always looking for the safe pass rather than expressing themselves and committing defenders.

Now, look at it from another point of view. The team is so unbalanced with Yaya in central midfield and so vulnerable to counter attacks, do you not think that hesitation or fear of losing possession stems from that lack of confidence in the rest of the teams ability to regain possession?

It's the lack of movement which leads to this stagnant passing, too often in the final third our wide players are static, hugging the line with our full backs literally standing on their toes, everyone comes short, leaving Sergio in the box on his own.

We are obsessed with getting our full backs in on the overlap. It works, but when it is your only attack then teams can stop it.

We are actually really good at regaining possession most of the time, we have some excellent ball winners. It's just we are so slow and ponderous at times it doesn't seem like it.

 

[Dax777]

Yaya hasnt physically declined like some are saying on here..

He is currently lacking fitness which has resulted in weight gain..

He has been carrying injuries all season which probabily means he cant train intensely, this is probabily the reason he has gained weight..

Whenver you see him train on CityTV he is just jogging around lightly,its no wonder he has got heavier..

It wouldnt surprise me at all if Yaya was still a pivotal player in our team next season..

Fully fit there not not many better players around and as he has shown this season, he can still win a game..

Lol, you sound like one of those David Silva apologists. Yaya normally doesn't get the 'Injury excuse' exception, that normally is reserved for Silva, Aguero and Kompany; You know, the Injury prone guys we bend over backwards to not call out when they perform poorly. :)

This is the first time I'm seeing Yaya in this group.

 

[Phil1]

Lol, you sound like one of those David Silva apologists. Yaya normally doesn't get the Injury exception, that normally is reserved for Silva, Aguero and Kompany; You know, the Injury prone guys we bend over backwards to not callbout when they perform poorly. :)

This is the first time I'm seeing Yaya in this group.

Seems a bit weird you doubting the validity of Silvas problems when there's been a 10 page thread started on it only today.

Calling folk apologists for backing the most successful players in our history also reflects poorly on you as well.
All in all a shite post Dax - expect better from you.

 

[Dax777]

Seems a bit weird you doubting the validity of Silvas problems when there's been a 10 page thread started on it only today.

I'm not doubting the validity of Silva's problems. I'm suggesting their are fans who use the Injury excuse whenever he plays poorly. Same with Aguero and Kompany. It's the go too card. 'Oh, he is still injured' that's the de facto standard. For Yaya, 'he can't be arsed' is the de facto standard.

The truthfulness or lack thereof of the Injury is irrelevant. The application of the exception to certain players and not to others, is what's relevant.

 

[Phil1]

I'm not doubting the validity of Silva's problems. I'm suggesting their are fans who use the Injury excuse whenever he plays poorly. Same with Aguero and Kompany. It's the go too card. 'Oh, he is still injured' that's the de facto standard. For Yaya, 'he can't be arsed' is the de facto standard.

The truthfulness or lack thereof of the Injury is irrelevant. The application of the exception to certain players and not to others, is what's relevant.

Well considering the three players you mention have all suffered mid - to long term injuries it's a fair argument to make when discussing their respective form when coming back from said injuries.
To my Mind Yaya hasn't suffered any long absences due to injury in his time here so yes, it's a bit of a surprise to hear he's been playing at less than 100%.

 

[fatbloke]

It's the lack of movement which leads to this stagnant passing, too often in the final third our wide players are static, hugging the line with our full backs literally standing on their toes, everyone comes short, leaving Sergio in the box on his own.

We are obsessed with getting our full backs in on the overlap. It works, but when it is your only attack then teams can stop it.

We are actually really good at regaining possession most of the time, we have some excellent ball winners. It's just we are so slow and ponderous at times it doesn't seem like it.

I think we're slow and ponderous because we haven't got a central midfielder willing to make runs either for himself or to create space for others, Yaya demands that everything is played into feet and it slows the tempo. You put Delph in with Fernandinho and it doesn't matter who goes and who stays, they're both capable of getting into the box, they're both capable of getting straight back afterwards. Neither has the silky touch or elegance of Yaya but we'd be able to play a higher intensity, higher energy style for 90 minutes, not just 5-10 minutes spells.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I think we're slow and ponderous because we haven't got a central midfielder willing to make runs either for himself or to create space for others, Yaya demands that everything is played into feet and it slows the tempo. You put Delph in with Fernandinho and it doesn't matter who goes and who stays, they're both capable of getting into the box, they're both capable of getting straight back afterwards. Neither has the silky touch or elegance of Yaya but we'd be able to play a higher intensity, higher energy style for 90 minutes, not just 5-10 minutes spells.

We could pick up a load of soldiers from the army for free if all our midfield needed to do was run forwards, get back, and play at a high energy.

Unfortunately football isn't as simple as that. You need players who can play too. Especially at City's level you need a central midfielder who can dictate a game, pick a pass, penetrate the oppositions midfield, find our attacking player's feet with sharp, incisive passing.

As was evidenced by the Liverpool away and Stoke away games, when Yaya isn't there, we really struggle to control the game. Fernandinho is a brilliant player, probably our playerof the season, but in terms of dictating play, he's light years behind Yaya.

 

[Clercqs]

On his day he's the best CM in the world but the thing that makes him so important is that we doesn't have another deep lying playmaker. Delph can dribble past a couple of player but isn't that great at passing. Fernandinho can't fill his role either. If Yaya leaves this summer we need to buy two deep lying playmakers if Pep thinks it's to early for Aleix Garcia.

 

[juhanni]

We will be blessed if Yaya stay another year with the best subs,,,,,,
Subs,,,Yaya Otamendi Gundogan lewandowski Kompany

 

[Shawnducati]

Lol, you sound like one of those David Silva apologists. Yaya normally doesn't get the 'Injury excuse' exception, that normally is reserved for Silva, Aguero and Kompany; You know, the Injury prone guys we bend over backwards to not call out when they perform poorly. :)

This is the first time I'm seeing Yaya in this group.

Agree with you sooooo much!!!!

Silva looks horrible and it's his ankle.

Yaya on one leg....he's lazy.

So frustrating on this board at times and turns me off.

 

[Shawnducati]

Say what you want about Yaya but we still look miles better with him in the team than without, a bit of an inconvenient truth for us at the moment.

Amen!

 

[fatbloke]

We could pick up a load of soldiers from the army for free if all our midfield needed to do was run forwards, get back, and play at a high energy.

Unfortunately football isn't as simple as that. You need players who can play too. Especially at City's level you need a central midfielder who can dictate a game, pick a pass, penetrate the oppositions midfield, find our attacking player's feet with sharp, incisive passing.

As was evidenced by the Liverpool away and Stoke away games, when Yaya isn't there, we really struggle to control the game. Fernandinho is a brilliant player, probably our playerof the season, but in terms of dictating play, he's light years behind Yaya.

If anything I'd say you're overcomplicating the game for no reason. We've played the same slow and ponderous style for the last 18 months/2 years and it's not worked, so why on earth would you continue doing the same thing game after game? Leicester and Tottenham are both currently proving there's no one style of play that's guaranteed to be successful, you don't have to try and emulate Barcelona to win games, you need all XI players playing together as a team to be greater than the sum of the individual parts.

All this bollocks about "needing a central midfielder who can dictate a game, pick a pass, penetrate the oppositions midfield, find our attacking player's feet with sharp, incisive passing" - when was the last time Yaya did that in big games consistently? You might get odd world class performances which paper over the cracks. Consistency wins you league titles, not 4 or 5 performances a season. Again look at Leicester and Spurs, who do they have that plays that role - absolutely fucking no one.

I'm not saying I want us to play like Leicester, defending like fuck and hoofing it up to Aguero, not at all but if things aren't going well then you go back to basics and they're the team that do the basics better than anyone. You defend compactly, work hard, close down quickly and do the dirty work - then the quality will shine through in the short term. Spurs are doing it the right way, they're not anywhere near as good as us technically but they're probably the closest in terms of style of play and work rate.

 

[PragueBlue]

Say what you want about Yaya but we still look miles better with him in the team than without, a bit of an inconvenient truth for us at the moment.

Exactly.

 

[Shaelumstash]

If anything I'd say you're overcomplicating the game for no reason. We've played the same slow and ponderous style for the last 18 months/2 years and it's not worked, so why on earth would you continue doing the same thing game after game? Leicester and Tottenham are both currently proving there's no one style of play that's guaranteed to be successful, you don't have to try and emulate Barcelona to win games, you need all XI players playing together as a team to be greater than the sum of the individual parts.

All this bollocks about "needing a central midfielder who can dictate a game, pick a pass, penetrate the oppositions midfield, find our attacking player's feet with sharp, incisive passing" - when was the last time Yaya did that in big games consistently? You might get odd world class performances which paper over the cracks. Consistency wins you league titles, not 4 or 5 performances a season. Again look at Leicester and Spurs, who do they have that plays that role - absolutely fucking no one.

I'm not saying I want us to play like Leicester, defending like fuck and hoofing it up to Aguero, not at all but if things aren't going well then you go back to basics and they're the team that do the basics better than anyone. You defend compactly, work hard, close down quickly and do the dirty work - then the quality will shine through in the short term. Spurs are doing it the right way, they're not anywhere near as good as us technically but they're probably the closest in terms of style of play and work rate.

Jesus I'm glad your not the manager mate! Your views on football sound similar to Stuart Pearce, get 11 grafters in, it doesn't matter if they can play football or any of that "bollocks".

I think you're going to be disappointed next season if you think having a deep lying midfielder who can dictate play and find penetrating passes is overly complicated. Guardiola's whole managerial career has been based on having players like that in his teams.

A lot is made of how hard Guardiola's teams work, and no doubt they do work very hard and cover a lot of yards. But talent, technique, intelligence comes first. His style is to take very talented footballers and organise them and make them work hard.

You won't see the opposite - him taking hard working, grafting players with little talent and trying to make them pass it better or any of that "bollocks" ;-)

 

[ono]

Do you not think some of our forward players look scared, ok maybe scared is too strong a word, maybe hesitant in possession? Always looking for the safe pass rather than expressing themselves and committing defenders.

Now, look at it from another point of view. The team is so unbalanced with Yaya in central midfield and so vulnerable to counter attacks, do you not think that hesitation or fear of losing possession stems from that lack of confidence in the rest of the teams ability to regain possession?

That's because dangerous passing angles only exist for us once the play has been stretched, like on a counter attack for example. We play possession football with the idea of overloading an area, before trying to find a key pass into a less populated area of the final third, where we might be able to get into a 1 v 1 situation, or even a clear shot on goal. To drag opposition out of position we have to make a number of simple passes which might not even end up leading to us eventually creating a chance. For this to be more effective we need players with Yaya's technique, vision and ability to retain the ball under pressure. A player can't just set out to express himself and commit defenders every time he has the ball. There needs to be a platform for him to do it, and that platform arises when said player does happen to get the ball in a dangerous area, in a 1 v1 situation.

I don't for one minute think players are scared to lose possession because Yaya is playing. I find that quite laughable. I think players in our system play patient possession based football because that's what they are supposed to do. I also don't think the likes of Fernandinho, Delph and Fernando have the ability or vision to play an expansive passing game without consistently turning over the ball.

I love how you always blame Yaya for us being vulnerable to the counter attack. He plays as the furthest forward central midfielder. The only player centrally ahead of him is Aguero. He often has Fernando and Fernandinho (who some on here argue is the best central midfielder in the league) behind him, is often flanked by one of Sterling and Navas (who are both defensively disciplined) and behind all of those players, is a back 4 and a keeper. Yet he's the one causing us to be vulnerable to the counter attack? How? Is the opposition's centre back running past him? No. Is the opposition's defensive midfielder running past him? no. Is the opposition's central midfielder running past him? Not often.

I'm sorry but those in the team to do a defensive job (and there's 6 or 7 of them) need to take their share of the blame. Maybe we are vulnerable to the counter attack because without Kompany to guide them through the game, our entire back 6 are positionally woeful when we lose the ball. Perfect recent examples would be the second Spurs goal, and the Mahrez Leicester goal where we were played through by only a couple of players. We shouldn't need 8 or 9 players back to defend either of those situations.

But yeah, blame Yaya because he looks lazy when he jogs.

 

[OB1]

That's because dangerous passing angles only exist for us once the play has been stretched, like on a counter attack for example. We play possession football with the idea of overloading an area, before trying to find a key pass into a less populated area of the final third, where we might be able to get into a 1 v 1 situation, or even a clear shot on goal. To drag opposition out of position we have to make a number of simple passes which might not even end up leading to us eventually creating a chance. For this to be more effective we need players with Yaya's technique, vision and ability to retain the ball under pressure. A player can't just set out to express himself and commit defenders every time he has the ball. There needs to be a platform for him to do it, and that platform arises when said player does happen to get the ball in a dangerous area, in a 1 v1 situation.

I don't for one minute think players are scared to lose possession because Yaya is playing. I find that quite laughable. I think players in our system play patient possession based football because that's what they are supposed to do. I also don't think the likes of Fernandinho, Delph and Fernando have the ability or vision to play an expansive passing game without consistently turning over the ball.

I love how you always blame Yaya for us being vulnerable to the counter attack. He plays as the furthest forward central midfielder. The only player centrally ahead of him is Aguero. He often has Fernando and Fernandinho (who some on here argue is the best central midfielder in the league) behind him, is often flanked by one of Sterling and Navas (who are both defensively disciplined) and behind all of those players, is a back 4 and a keeper. Yet he's the one causing us to be vulnerable to the counter attack? How? Is the opposition's centre back running past him? No. Is the opposition's defensive midfielder running past him? no. Is the opposition's central midfielder running past him? Not often.

I'm sorry but those in the team to do a defensive job (and there's 6 or 7 of them) need to take their share of the blame. Maybe we are vulnerable to the counter attack because without Kompany to guide them through the game, our entire back 6 are positionally woeful when we lose the ball. Perfect recent examples would be the second Spurs goal, and the Mahrez Leicester goal where we were played through by only a couple of players. We shouldn't need 8 or 9 players back to defend either of those situations.

But yeah, blame Yaya because he looks lazy when he jogs.

And he likes cake.

 

[fatbloke]

Jesus I'm glad your not the manager mate! Your views on football sound similar to Stuart Pearce, get 11 grafters in, it doesn't matter if they can play football or any of that "bollocks".

I think you're going to be disappointed next season if you think having a deep lying midfielder who can dictate play and find penetrating passes is overly complicated. Guardiola's whole managerial career has been based on having players like that in his teams.

A lot is made of how hard Guardiola's teams work, and no doubt they do work very hard and cover a lot of yards. But talent, technique, intelligence comes first. His style is to take very talented footballers and organise them and make them work hard.

You won't see the opposite - him taking hard working, grafting players with little talent and trying to make them pass it better or any of that "bollocks" ;-)

So you take 90% of what I said out of context, then make up some bullshit about Stuart Pearce, top it off with a failure to any questions that don't fit your argument and fuck me we have your reply. Brilliant.

 

[Shaelumstash]

So you take 90% of what I said out of context, then make up some bullshit about Stuart Pearce, top it off with a failure to any questions that don't fit your argument and fuck me we have your reply. Brilliant.

Mate, I will quote word for word what you said:
"All this bollocks about "needing a central midfielder who can dictate a game, pick a pass, penetrate the oppositions midfield, find our attacking player's feet with sharp, incisive passing" "

Nothing is out of context, that's your exact quote.

My point remains, if you think it is, to use your own phrase "bollocks" to have a central midfielder who can dictate a game, pick a pass, penetrate the oppositions midfield, find our attacking players with sharp, incisive passing, then I think you're going to be disappointed next season, because that's the exact type of attributes Guardiola looks for in a central midfielder.

If you don't believe me, read the books written about him, research his interviews where he talks about the game.

 

[HelloCity]

Yaya has played well for 2-3 months now. He's even been good in Europe this season as well. Of course he isn't going to get back to his peak level but that's more an age issues than him being 'lazy' as the haters like to tell you.