Youth or Success

[malg]

It took him about 6 or 7 years to get the set up for it and even then, they were lucky with the quality. I think a large part of it is in the mentality of the players. I shamefully read Neville's book and he goes into the youth setup a lot and says that some of the more talented players didn't make it.

The hub of the team - Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc were being pushed ridiculously hard by the coaching staff. Ferguson was ridiculously harsh on them but they had a desire that he believes doesn't exist as strongly in today's game. Mainly because players can become multi millionaires without winning a trophy.

They were told they had a small chance of making it at United and a few of them took it. At City, we have the infastructure in place but until someone is given the chance, the other younger players may lack the belief that they can make it at City, but also know they can make a superb living playing at a different club.

It would be nice to see, but as gutted as I am about Lopes leaving and Denayer having to go out on loan, I don't think I will really care if we win the league.

I agree with you, it's success for me as well. Given a choice of winning the league with our current team or coming a close second, but with 4 academy players in the team, I'd go for the team that won the title.

 

[johnnytapia]

Sadly the days (for PL clubs) in producing a crop of youngsters from the immediate area, coming through the ranks, having a good shot at the youth cup and making the first team / beyond are long gone.
There was tremendous pride in seeing Lakey, Redmond et al coming through as they did in 86 - 90 but they came through out of neccesity because the club was on its knees financially.
Would I want to watch those players again thrash the rags 5-1 (the only time they beat the rags) or watch Yaya and co regularily beat them 1-0, 1-6, 4-1, 1-2, 1-0, 0-3 etc etc on top of winning a few silver pots along the way....

So, which would you prefer? I grew up in similar times to you Phil and would have given my left nut for a derby win, so I'm fucking delighted we smash those cunts year in, year out. And if we do it, as we do, with not a single local, youth-developed lad, so be it. When we won 5-1, it didn't matter a fucking bean to me who wore the shirt - Mancunian, ex-Ipswich, ex-Bournemouth etc, all that mattered was that they played for City. And won. I could not give a fuck if we never won another youth/EDS game ever again, if the first team paraded endlessly around town with a plethora of pots.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

both
barca, united, arsenal, dortmund, bayern, milan, even psg manage to do it and when they won things, why can't we.

 

[twosips]

There is no connection between the two.

It's all a load of nonsense. There are very few top sides in history who haven't actually brought through young players. It's just that if you can spend 40 million quid on every position, you don't need to. That's the top & bottom of it.

The idea that managers & coaches can look at these players & know for sure which ones amongst the best of them will make it, & which ones won't, is also complete bullshit. If you were to get the lesser known quotes of every manager & coach in the history of football, including Allison, Ferguson, all of them, you will find them talking complete bollocks about certain young players. Ferguson for instance told everyone how Utd were set up for the future with their young players. Wenger signed Jermaine Pennant.

I've made this point elsewhere & been told how I know nothing & that these people are professionals so I should just accept that they do, then there's 100 posts laughing at Utd for signing a 19 year old kid for 50 mil because OF COURSE they don't know if he will be good enough. OF COURSE they don't. If they say they do, they are fucking lying.

They will find out over the next couple of years if he is good enough. Same with Depay.

And Pellegrini is in exactly he same situation with our best prospects. Neither he nor Vieira know if Lopes or Denayer or Roberts or Barker etc etc will make it. They just have a best guess. The proof comes when they play in the team for a period of time.

Bringing some from the subs bench to try & learn to play i the first team, involves no risk whatsoever. Never has, never will.

This ^

 

[citytill1die84]

If the youth are good enough they'll play simple as that.

Success all day long.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Immediate success, helping to create the aura that means our youngsters come in full of confidence and over-respected, like Barca are.

Would help if we could thrash the continent at EDS and U18 level so that all the youngsters in football across the continent shit themselves when they face them in the first team.

 

[mosssideblue]

There is no connection between the two.

It's all a load of nonsense. There are very few top sides in history who haven't actually brought through young players. It's just that if you can spend 40 million quid on every position, you don't need to. That's the top & bottom of it.

The idea that managers & coaches can look at these players & know for sure which ones amongst the best of them will make it, & which ones won't, is also complete bullshit. If you were to get the lesser known quotes of every manager & coach in the history of football, including Allison, Ferguson, all of them, you will find them talking complete bollocks about certain young players. Ferguson for instance told everyone how Utd were set up for the future with their young players. Wenger signed Jermaine Pennant.

I've made this point elsewhere & been told how I know nothing & that these people are professionals so I should just accept that they do, then there's 100 posts laughing at Utd for signing a 19 year old kid for 50 mil because OF COURSE they don't know if he will be good enough. OF COURSE they don't. If they say they do, they are fucking lying.

They will find out over the next couple of years if he is good enough. Same with Depay.

And Pellegrini is in exactly he same situation with our best prospects. Neither he nor Vieira know if Lopes or Denayer or Roberts or Barker etc etc will make it. They just have a best guess. The proof comes when they play in the team for a period of time.

Bringing some from the subs bench to try & learn to play i the first team, involves no risk whatsoever. Never has, never will.

Yes, but their best guess will be much more aligned to what will happen than what some fans might beleive - don't you think?

 

[mosssideblue]

If the youth are good enough they'll play simple as that.

Success all day long.

Fully agree.

 

[City Raider]

Ferguson managed it.

He did and Oliver Kay has piece today suggesting LVG is changing United's ethos. Times are different though and Is LVG really doing that much different?

GPCs spending in his first few years, adjusted for inflation, can be compared to LVG. He then got lucky in 92 and that allowed him to change his ethos. I doubt that will happen again for them or anyone else.

This was also a period when they were winning league by 10 points plus, it's easier to blood younger players when you're totally dominating.

It will be the same for us, if we carry on our start there will be more opportunities to give younger players a chance. If we continue our tradition of nerve tingling last day wins, there won't.

 

[Neville Kneville]

If the youth are good enough they'll play simple as that.

Success all day long.

There has hardly ever been a youth player 'good enough to play' for a top side with City's kind of resources, in the history of football. Even Messi required Barca to give him a chance when they could have technically picked someone better. Same with Giggs at Utd & they were shit at the time. Ronaldo at Utd the same.