Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
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Lol
Pep's tactics
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Lol
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
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I'll take our chances, you have to have the ball to win most corners!!!
To compare - that is Bayern from Friday:
What made me wonder was the number of passes played. The possession stats aren't so different - it is just about 4 % less possession for City. What is different is that Bayern played 200 passes more than City- 781 to 587 - in less time as the referee did not add any time. Bremen was not a really big test for Bayern - but as the key players were in training for little more than 2 weeks...
Made me curious about the averages of former years. Seems like City averaged 540 last season, Bayern had 730.
To compare now with Barcelona of the last seasons with about 640 - but they had 714 in 11/12 (the year that Pep always told was too much) and 752 in 10/11.
Just to get the Bayern numbers right - in Bayern's last year before Pep it was 602 - went up to 726 in Pep's first year at Bayern.
Interesting feature I haven't thought about before - but it will be interesting to watch. The more used your players will get to the system the more the faster they will be able to pass and the players will know where to run, too.
Andrew___K
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Good post. Cheers! Maldeika, I don't think we can read much into these numbers other than that significant part of Pep's work still remains. Patient and well-planned build up from the deep with the lightning fast wing attacks is what made Pep's final year's Bayern so special. The thing is, I doubt Carlo has knowledge to sustain 'Juego de Posicion' style, he has already switched to an old-fashioned counter attacking mode and looked more than vulnerable against a modern pressing team in the Supercup. It will be something mixed this year, and Bayern has a good chance of winning the CL. But once all the remaining bits of Pep's work are finally dissolved, it can be a very rude awakening. IMO Carlo is a slighly outdated coach whos strongest point is using players' individual capabilities, but I'd dare to say your squad is not the best in Europe anymore. Tuchel could continue Pep's legacy, but you've passed on him, unfortunately.
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Agree with most points except the one in bold. Carlo will dissolve Pep's style by season end. He said it himself: its easier to train players to counterattack than coach them to play pro-active football. It will be a pity as Bayern was the one big variant under Pep, in a largely one-dimensional league dominated by counterattacking. It wont be the same. But it is still a mighty good squad, still the best in Europe this year. Tuchel is progressive but doesnt get any credit from the German media obsessed with charismatic/goofy characters. Carlo is still a cup coach, so I expect Bayern to again be competing in the latter stages of the CL. I put them & Barca as favorites. But the best chance to win the league for Carlo is this year as the players still retain a lot of Pep's qualities. Yet, I suspect, Carlo could still come undone in the league this year as his game-management is poor and often that makes a difference in away games. BvB is as always looking exciting but I suspect, Tuchel has increased the control aspect of the game this year. Lets see if it affects their attacking bite.
On KdB & Gundogan, I would hv to agree with Jay. When Dinho at RB tucks inside, him and Gundo will interchange their attacking & defensive duties. So defending will still be collective. I doubt Pep will bench Gundo for KdB, unless in some very specific instances or for injury or form reasons. It looks tempting as KdB is still trying to come to terms with #8. But imagine our threat when we hv KdB, Silva AND Gundo playing. Pep is Pep. He prefers going for the jugular, in style! Remember the adage: Attack is the best form of defense! & Pep's own variant: To not take risk is the biggest risk!
Andrew___K
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Idk why you all are so obsessed with this little trick with 'inside fullbacks'. It's not so significant, and can't change DM's responsibilities. Of course, Pep doesn't need Makelele or Kante, he just doesn't believe in such player type. But a wavebreaker role itself means at least a certain level of physicality and tackling skills. After all, DM playing in Pep's favourite 'La Salida lavolpiana' occasionally becomes a central defender and faces counterattacks in that role. You can't face Cristiano, Bale, Pogba or any other athletic freak with a fragile player with an injured knee. As for the help from the 'inverted full backs', any smart european coach will lure them out with ease, it's not a high algebra. Then there is history. Pep never played with such a soft small DM, why would he start to do that in a brainless, but very physical EPL? And where does this myth of Gundogan being able to play DM come from? As you personally know BvB well, as I can see. I just can't get your arguments.
jay_mcfc
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Because we're talking week in week out in England. Maybe when we go up against the very best that have Messi, Bale, Ronaldo etc then he will change things slightly. The most important things in the pivot position are intelligence and ball retention/distribution - things that Gundogan has in abundance whereas Fernandinho is a bit more limited. He can do the defensive side of the position, including sitting in at cb when needed but it requires a lot more than that.
You remind me of another poster who put too much emphasis on the pivot role being a DM. We're not saying that Gundogan can play the DM role in most systems but he can play, and is probably the most suited out of all of squad, the pivot in a Pep system. In truth, Gundogan isn't perfect for it but nobody is and that's why for the benefit of the team and to be able to get our best players out there he is the best option.
Andrew___K
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That was probably me, mate)
No-one is obsessed with inverted full-backs. The point is Pep is flexible with movement and positioning during a game, no matter how he starts on paper! The point in bold: Alonso doesnt hv any physicality or tackling skill which is different from Gundogan's. Neither does Busi. In fact, Gundo is physically better equipped than Busi. The point is intelligence. Else, Pep would hv used Mascherano at DM and not Busi as u say. Cristiano, Bale hardly attack thru the center, though they love to cut inside. And CR is more or less a striker now, with very little dribbling ability. And oh, what makes u think I am suggesting playing Gundogan in central midfield every game. Pep does tinker based on opposition too. And my remarks are not pertaining to the derby but a more general idea of how Pep will think through the season. Forget these titles like DM, AM, RB, etc. I am saying Pep would love to use Gundo deeper if it means playing KdB as well becoz he can. Gundo is in fact, more box-to-box than Alonso or Busi, closer to Vidal if u like. Of course no one knows how he will be physically after his latest injury. But assuming he is back to his best, I hv no doubts he can be the playmaker in Pep's team. And that means he starts from deep, not from where KdB starts. Call him DM, CM, whatever. But with him as playmaker, the team automatically pins the opposition deeper into their half. So what does DM even mean when opponent try to transition? Pep has never used physicality to defend. He likes to defend space first. So the positioning and out-numbering of the opponent matters more. And Pep is clearly going more vertical in England making us dangerous every time we attack. And Fernandinho can play multiple roles depending on which phase we are in - recall the 3-1 tactical humbling Pep gave Mourinho at Bernabeu when Busi played 2 roles in the same game allowing us to use Cesc as well. Pep is here to show this country intelligence trumps physicality. And I agree with him.
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