Religion

better dead than red said:
Don't mind them. Christians are easy targets in their mind. It'll typically be a long wait before most of them mock the prophet of Islam. (pbuh).
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The prophet of Islam is more historically dubious than Jesus. There's very little there to mock. Of course there's plenty of made up stories about the supposed prophet we could get stuck into.

Christianity isn't an "easy target," it's the religion that most people are familiar with in the West, the one that has had the most influence over our lives, and therefore the one that gets the most criticism and jokes told about it. But I always laugh when Christians envy the relationship that Islam has with satire and mockery, as if they hark back to a time when those who criticise Christianity could equally be ostracised, imprisoned, or even killed for doing so.

I think Dara O'Briain puts it best:

 
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denislawsbackheel said:
This is nonsense.

You cannot be a good Christian if you do not try to convert others. A Christian dirty is to be an evangelist.

That is the trouble with it.

If it wasn’t for evangelism, and they’d mind their own business I’d have no problem with them.
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Think of it the other way. He is a Christian who believes being a follower of Christ is the only way to salvation. So, being a good Christian he would want good for the others too and so shares his beliefs. A true religion should be proselytising in nature.
 
I work with a guy who was brought up as a Muslim. He no longer prays and all that stuff but he still wont eat pork.

It did amuse me the day I marched him over to the counter of McDonald's and got the serving person to confirm that their Sausage McMuffins were made of pork, not beef as he claimed. He'd been eating them for years!
 
Zubrman said:
I work with a guy who was brought up as a Muslim. He no longer prays and all that stuff but he still wont eat pork.
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Yeah, I think it's very much like if you asked a British person if they've eaten snails or insects. Even if they're not religious, there's often still an eww factor, especially if they've never had it before.
 
Magicpole said:
Why did the Roman Empire not mention him? They did with every other perceived threat to their rule. And acted accordingly in a brutal fashion to put it down.

Let’s look at the supposed scenario.

The Jews had been waiting for a Messiah. Their Messiah was not a hippy love everybody, including your slavery master. Theirs was one that weirder a sword and would vanquish their enemies and deliver them from bondage.

Jesus turns up, and if we are to believe the Bible, was having gatherings of thousands of people. The loaves and the fishes where he fed five thousand. He entered Bethlehem on a donkey to show humility with thousands of people laying palm leaves before him.

Now, where the Roman soldiers in control of Bethlehem straight out of Life if Brian? Did nobody ask, who is thus ****? Thousands of people are turning out for this self proclaimed Messiah. The Messiah according to Judaism would smite the Romans and nobody thought , maybe we should report thus back to Rome. Where the Senate would decide, as they had done countless times, to sort it out?

Not one mention in any Rinan document of him. A guy who could attract thousands of people fed up with Roman rule and whose own writings foretold a warrior?

They just let it go. Never bothered their arse? Really? The Roman Empire sustained through fear and power.

The reason there is no record of a threat or action to qwell that is simple. It never happened. Any leader who could attract the numbers the Bible claims Jesus attracted, would have been seen as a potential threat and dealt with accordingly.

Al the accounts of him where nearly 70 years after he was supposed to have lived through people who weren’t there.

The Romans took any threat seriously, read up on their response to threats across their empire. But, not a peep. Not one sentence about a Jewish guy who claimed to be the Messiah and could turn out the equivelant of five legions to listen to him?

There isn’t a mention because it didn’t happen. Rome lasted centuries on the basis of control and subjugation of threat.

A guy who is supposed to be a sword wielding freedom fighter never raised an eyebrow?

If anybody believes that happened, I have five magic beans going at a competitive price.
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Brilliant! Say no more
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
The holy Roman empire is still alive and kicking isn't it?

On the religion side of things I have a friend who used to be friends with most of the people I know but his constant testifying and criticism of how people led their lives has caused them to say enough is enough because he's so vociferous about how damned we all are. He didn't use to be religious but he now sees Jesus in toast and is full of every conspiracy theory to prove his point that we must be stupid not to see.

He's also lost his wife because he started putting crucifixes around the house and began to act like a stern disciplinarian, it wont be long before I have to let him go because it gets to be very very hard work although I really do want to be there for him.
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He's a fucked up loon!
 
I'm With Stupid said:
No, but it's still a reason why it gets more scrutiny that other historical events in popular culture. No doubt academic historians treat Jesus exactly the same as any other claimed historical figure.
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Historians, yes. Which is why it's so fascinating.
 
Fame Monster said:
You do realise that a couple of hundred years after Jesus' death, there were Roman emperors who converted to Christianity?
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Fame Monster said:
You do realise that a couple of hundred years after Jesus' death, there were Roman emperors who converted to Christianity?
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I am aware of that. As time passes and more people were duped it eventually made its way to the Emperors themselves and that is why I had to endure being sent to mass as a child every bastard fucking Sunday.

It’s personal for me. :)
 
big phil said:
Bunch of fucking loons. Believe any shit, rewrite history when it suits them, kick off when it doesn’t .... hang on, thought this was the liverpool thread ;)
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In the beginning Klopp created the attack and the defence.
And the defence was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the teeth. And the Spirit of Klopp moved upon the face of the waters.
And Klopp said, Let them be white: and they was white.
 
Henkeman said:
Frankly bizarre that anyone would expect it to. There's zero primary evidence for Pilate, the governor of Judea. There's sod all for Quirinius except his appointment.

Once again, people are holding stuff to higher standards than for anywhere else in the ancient world. Hell, there's sweet FA about most of Claudius' reign as emperor for that matter, while Vespasian's life is almost entirely a mystery up to his accession. These are emperors.

Historians do not dispute Jesus' authenticity. Most accept the Gospel of John as an eyewitness account. I guess BM know better.
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In this day and age, with over a century of extensive written and video evidence to the contrary, 659 Million people think football was invented in 1992. Accordingly, there's no way you can rely as one persons account as evidence of fact.

I rest my case your honour.
 
Brightwells left peg said:
In this day and age, with over a century of extensive written and video evidence to the contrary, 659 Million people think football was invented in 1992. Accordingly, there's no way you can rely as one persons account as evidence of fact.

I rest my case your honour.
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Just as many think the 659 million was based on anything resembling fact.
 
Fame Monster said:
I suppose the question is then, if Jesus didn't exist, who created Christianity?
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The same type of people who created Judaism. Who told tales of Moses parting seas, who claimed, falsely, that the Jews were held in bondage in Egypt, again no evidence. Who claimed the Jews wandered the desert for 40 years and how the Israelis, set up an intensive archeological dig to find the evidence of this, turned up nothing. No trace.

Prophecies were made in the Old Testament that later writers knew about and wrote stories that made them come true. The original stories have been shown to be false. So the adenments are also fictitious.

Joseph and Mary had to return to Bethlehem for the prophecies to be true, no bother, they went back for the census. Only problem being, there was no such census. That never happened either. As Roman history shows clearly.

There were tales of messiahs galore. It was a time of Gods and saviours for people getting the shit kicked out of them.

The line from Life of Brian by Cleese captured it perfectly.

“He is the the Messiah and I should know, I’ve followed a few”.

Every religion is man made. Guys sitting and making up shit to suit their ends. To make their “god” seem divine they afforded them great powers. Literally hundreds had virgin births, as how could a god be a god if he was mortal? He couldn’t, so we see most as born of virgins.

The Jesus story is also shared by nearly 30 gods. Born of a virgin, a childhood know it all, had disciples, performed miracles, were crucified and rose again. The fly in the ointment is over half of these myths predate Jesus.

Why would god use the same back story? I wrote a wee story that explained what needed to happen a few years ago to a religious guy who claimed I couldn’t disprove god. So I used the same logic and told him he couldn’t disprove my version of how it all happened either.

What you have to believe


We can now see back in time up to 12 billion years to the very beginning of the universe. Yes we really can. So, logically, if God created the universe it must have gone something like this. As people of faith say that you cannot disprove the existence of thier god then by the same logic... I know you hate that word, but let's go with it for argument sake, then what follows is absolutely true and I challenged any believer to prove it didn't happen verbatim.


God: Oh me, I hate this empty void. The nothingness of nothing. The Dyson of vacuums. dont get me wrong, i pulled it off by being here in all this darkness, don't ask me where i came from, because i don't know. but I'm lonely. but Wait a minute! Wait a 'me' damned minute. Why didn't I think of it before? I will create a 'universe' yes a 'universe' I like the sound of that. It will be vast beyond comprehension. It's beauty and symmetry a thing of wonder. But then, I will forget all about that, indeed that the world i created to experiment with stuff is a globe , that it travels around the sun and not the other way. that 6,000 years is really true, even though there are trees in the US that are over 8,000 years old and can be verified by simply counting the fucking rings! I will create this wondrous universe but forget about it all and focus on a subspecies of an ape on a beautiful wee planet that I will personally fuck up through conning people to believe in me. What else could I do?


BANG ( a big one)


12 billion years later


God: WTF HAPPENED? What times it? Oh that's rightI haven’t invented that yet. I must have dozed off on all the cosmic wonder. I can’t do all this myself, I need help even though I'm omnipotent and dead clever and mysterious.... Like the sound of that. Mysterious, i think thats the way i will move from here on in.


What to do.? That's it. I will spilt myself in three. Me, top honcho, obviously, a son, that's it a son, he might come in useful down the line a bit. That's not enough though, I like the number three, even though I haven't invented a need for numbers yet.,I know, a ghost, that's it a Holy Ghost. So it's the holy Trinity. I will create a wee planet in the back erse of the 'universe, hold on,' but that will take too long. I cannot Adam and Eve it. That's it, I will make a man, then a woman because I'm a man and so is Jeezy peezy, my son i just created, and the ghost is a ghost.


4,000 years later:


God: Jeezy come in a minute son.


Jeezy: But dad, can I not stay out a wee while longer?


God: Get your arse in here this minute before I get all biblical on your ass.


Jeezy: I hate you. What is it?


God: You know Adam and Eve's kids?


Jeezy: the kids you made in our image?


God: The very same.


Jeezy: what about them?


God : They’ve went Tonto.


Jeezy: What’s Tonto?


God: That’s not important right now. What is important is that I have been wanaring ( battering to non Glaswegians) them left right and centre with plagues, pestilence, you name it. I even flooded the cunts. Still they fornicate and covet each others ox.


Jeezy: Dirty bastards!


God: Exactly


Jeezy: So, what next then? Fireballs? Meteor strike? I mean you laid it out pretty damn clear in yon book you dictated to they Bronze Age dudes. Why did you tell them the world was only 4,000 years old?


God: like, yeah, they're going to understand Newtonian Law? Please!!!!


Jeezy: Who’s he?


God: That’s not important right now either.


Jeezy: I should really know this shit.


God: So, here's my plan. Don't go mad, hear me out?


Jeezy (eying his faithir suspiciously:) Go on.


God: Well, I was thinking. The world is full of sin right?


Jeezy: obviously.


God: well, what I was thinking is we need someone to wash the sins of the world away with their blood.


Jeezy: Woh old man woh, you really need to chill the fuck out. This obsession with vengeance and bloodlust will all end in tears for some poor ****. Mark my words.


God: Funny you should say that. I was thinking, what better way to show them that in the vastness of the universe, and lets face it, we don't even know how big it is now. Fucker seems to grow everyday. That they are the sole focus of my attention and I will monitor their every deed and thought. And I am the kind of right on god that will sacrifice his own son to die a horrible death to clean away the sins of the world?


Jeezy: Mind and put the bit in about the poofs. That's vital. Your GONNY DO WHAT?


God: A given about the homosexuals, canny believe I created them. I mean, people loving and caring for each other of the same sex? We need to stamp on that kind of thing. Don't worry about the hideous death, it wil be worth it in the end. Believe me, I'm god.


Jeezy: So you create people, yet you want to punish them for something you created? sounds about right, I’m sure moronic fuckers throughout time will back you on that auld yin. And you’re throwing me to the wolves for stuff I had fuck all to do with? How’s that fair? I mean. I agree with making gay people's lives more difficult, Its a winner, but I'm not gay. Why torture me? Don’t get me wrong, stuff about burning in hell if they don't believe in us. That will be useful for despots for the rest of time. Us included


God: Was the first thing I thought of. So, getting back on track, here's the deal. You pop down and grow up being a child prodigy,


Jeezy: I thought proddies didn't came along till later?


God: Not the same thing son. Anyway you grow up and start cutting about with 12 guys.


Jeezy: This is beginning to sound gay.


God. Its not gay, you're just mates. So, to recap. The plan in full.

You will be born of a Virgin.


Jeezy: Whose gonny believe that?


God : That mob would believe anything that's written down. So born 25 December.


Jeezy: Aw me. Christmas day? But that means a lose oot on pressies.


God. : You will miss out on nothing. I'm sending three wise men, fuck it I’ll make them Kings. Your ma boy. They will bring you stuff, you'll love it. Then as I says you will cut about telling people stories n that, in all probability a film or two will be made. You will be a star. So, you cut about, raising people from the dead, curing illnesses that we gave them.


Jeezy: Why not just stop giving them illness?

God: Where’s the fun in that? See you! I worry about you. You’re too soft. So, after about let's say thirty years you have fed the 5,000, walked on water, had a brawl in the temple. Told hundreds of stories and rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.


Jazzy: Come again?......I thought you said donkey there. Heehee a donkey? What was it you said?


God: I did say a donkey. I like donkeys, they don't get the credit they deserve and some of them are treated appallingly...remind me to start a few sanctuary's later on.


Jeezy: but Da?


God: But da nothing. You will then get intae a bit of bother, the Romans catch you, the people condemn you to death, you get a helluva tanking are crucified and killed. But, here's the good part, you rise again after three days and come back up where you can heal, and play awday if you like as a special treat.


Jeezy: Back up a wee bit. What was that?

God, what bit? the raising and playing forever?


Jeezy: I was thinking more the helluva beating and crucifying, if your asking?


God: it will be easy.


Jeezy: Then you go!!! Your so clever with these plans aren't you? Me, you even forgot to tell they bawbags the earth was a globe.now this?


God: I canny go, I have too much on ma plate. If you go the people will feel the Holy Spirit,


Holy Spirit: they're no feeling me. I thought we were clear about poofery?


God: Who said that! Jesus!


Jeezy: it wisny me.


God: no Jesus. Jesus, ...Jesus! Jesus!


Jeezy: oh Jesus as in Jesus H, Jesus?


God: The same.


Jeezy: cool.


Holy: Are you two finished?


God : Where are you?


Holy: Am standing right beside you


Jeezy and god: Jesus! You’re-freaky


God: How long you been hanging about?


Holy: I heard the whole sorry plan.


Jeezy: why didn't you say something?


Holy: I was scared he would send me. Then unrealised that would be stupid even for him. I mean how can they torture and crucify a ghost? Think of the damage that would be inflicted bringing ghosts into it.


Jeezy: I know Da, think of the future when people kid on they can talk to them and charge people money for telling them they're departed loved ones love them, but tragically can't remember their names?

Is that what you want? Because that's what'll happen.


Holy: nobody would believe that.


Gid: oh yeh? they believe in the talking snake and the burning bush. That the world is 4,000 years old. This will be a piece a piss compared to that. And fine you know it. Holy gonny have a word with him?


Holy: You haven't thought this through, have you?


God: Shut it the pair a ye. we will worry about that later.


Jeezy: And I-haven’t even mentioned what the morons will come up with when they find the dinosaur fossils.


Holy: that'll be a piss case. I actually canny wait. Even he's grinning.


God: ok ok I will admit it has it's funny side.


Jeezy: plus you will encourage feeble minded people to believe in shit that's not true about everything and they in turn will tell their weans. It will a come apart. People will stop believing.


God: I've already thought of that dummy. I'm going start other religions too. Cover our arses..


Jeezy: da your a right swine. That will cause untold millions of deaths


God: I'm bored with floods and plagues of locusts. That's so last year.


Jeezy: ok then, what have I to do again? Have I got this straight?


Born 25th dec, check


Of a virgin? Canny see it, but check


Child teacher, as well as a joiner? Check


Have 12 Disciples. Still think its gay but whatever. Check


Cut about doing miracles and shit. Check


Captured crucified and rise on the third day. Why three days?


God: trinity mate, think about it.


Jeezy:,is that not exactly the same profile you gave Horus, yon Egyptian cat 3,000 years ago? I'm sure it is.


Holy: he's right I mind it well.


God: Nobody will remember that. It was pure ages ago. Trust me.


Jeezy: You’re playing a dangerous game mate.,one of these days we will get rumbled.


God: Even if we do get rumbled, caught bang to rights, the majority will still believe. Can you believe that shit?


Holy: awesome.


Jeezy: Even though this is all made up, you couldn't make up the reaction to stuff that is clearly aw made up by your adored flock.


Holy: that's why he called them
His Flock, bah bah hehee.


God:? Exactamundo


Jesus: but what about aw the stuff about killing people on the Sabath for cutting their grass? Over reaction an aw that? I mean homophobia is a must clearly, but some of your other pronouncement a are a bit, well, Bronze Age. People might think that since its a load of mistakes about stuff, the world being flat, a circle is still flat, before you drag that old chestnut up. And as you fine well know the Earth goes roon the sun. You know the thing you created in six days? What the eff were you thinking with that? Six days! its 4.5 billion years old and that shit can and will be proved.


God: I just let the guys write that bit. Was feeling a bit low that day. Anyway as u says they will believe anything. Talking snake anyone?


Holy: he's got a point.


Jeezy: so when you gony start this thing then.


God: what date is it.


Holy : it's 9 months and four days BC.


God; better get ma skates on,


Jeezy: what are skates?


Holy; that's not important right now.,


God: right Jeezy, prepare thyself


Jeezy: da I still think they're gonny tipple I'm the same as Horus. Can you no make up another scenario, preferably lighter on the suffering and pain shit?


God: What if I let you walk on water and give you the ability to turn water into wine?


Holy: ordinary tap water?


God: when they invent Taps, aye sure.


Jeezy: Boom, am in. Run it by me how am caught again.


God: judas


Jeezy:,that's a right treacherous sounding name. Sounds contrived to me.


God:,I know, genius. Well it wouldn't have the same ring or emotion if I call him Rupert now would it?


Jeezy: why does he betray me?


His: money and jealousy, but mostly because I make him.


Jeezy: harsh!


Holy: the root of all evil. That and sex.


God : and poofs


Holy: A given.


Jeezy: how does he do it?


His: with a kiss


Jeezy: Again dad, sounding gay.


God: on the cheek, the cheek.


Jeezy: No tongues?


God: Cross my heart and hope to die.


Jeezy: but why does he need to ?


God, the Romans don't know who you are or what you look like


Jeezy: Come again? They don't know what I look like? Are you taking the piss? I've been cutting about way 12 men doing miracles and shit. Thousands come to see me. I ride into town in a swanky donkey with palms on the ground. The place according to you is heaving. The Romans kill anybody who they think may incite insurrection. Do you no think they might take an interest in a guy who attracts aw they people and has the handle Messiah? No think that would raise a few Roman eyebrows.


Holy: He’s got a point. How could anyone with this SP no attract attention? It couldn't happen.


God: I told ye they will believe anything.


Holy: but they don't even mention him ataw. I've looked forward. Nay mention at aw in Roman records.


God: listen if your gonny go doon the facts and reason route we might as well chuck it right fucking now.,
Blind Faith and mild mental illness is the boy for us.


Jeezy; well if you think it will work.


God: a cert trust me. Have I ever let you down.


Jeezy: sending me doon to die for their sins is no what I had in mind da. Why no just forgive them with a booming voice, or shit like that?


God: Jeezy, sometimes I worry about you. Go with the funky beat man. Tell him holy.


Holy: Jeezy the more ridiculous the story the more people will suck it up. I know Ye canny believe it but, think of the rednecks to come. The mentally deluded. It will be the biggest money spinner after booze the world has ever, or will ever know. And you my little beardy mucker, are the star of the show. People will convince themselves you talk directly to them every fucking day. Can you believe that shit. Like as if you are gonny be sitting about listening to their self centred bolloks. . I mean, REALLY?


God: tell him the best bit Holy.


Holy: you ain't gonny believe this but. When really terrible shit happens they pray to you and when, duh , you do sweet fuck all they tell themselves it's they're fault!! (Laugh)


And when good things happen that have jack shit to do with you, they say PRAISE JESUS he has saved us.


Jeezy: get the fuck out of here you two. No way.


Holy: I'm telling you Bro. You can do no wrong.


Jeezy: what about all the children who die of starvation and shit?


God: that's their fault too. Plus, listen to this wan, I move in mysterious ways. If something bad happens its they're fault.


Jeezy: faithir your an evil genius.


God: no shit Sherlock.


Jeezy: whose Sherlock?


God: that's not important right now. But you'll love him.


Jeezy: man they is so dumb.


God: at last the penny drops. So you let them aw know that if they believe in me they can come and live with us.


Holy: come again?


God: they can aw come and live with us if they believe in me, us.


Holy : here? here? Actually in here way us?


His: aye, here.


Holy: have you lost your tiny fucking mind? They fart and everything. Where will we put them aw?


God: they're no really coming stupid. We just tell them that to keep them in line.


Holy: phew, i pure shat masel there. I thought you meant it. Imagine the inconvenience alone?


Jeezy: So, how do I pick people for to miracle upon. Is there an instruction manual or do I just look for peely wally types? Dudes with no legs and that, blind sorts ? Does it stretch beyond physical impediment to psychological disorders, or is there more mileage in they dos cunts way bits missing and that?


Gid: no, keep it Tay the cripples lepers and shit like that. Wow factor Jeezy. Showbiz.....bazaz. Don’t grow back limbs though.

Jeezy: and raising the dead?


God: don't go overboard way that one fella. A couple tops. Get them to talk about walking toward a light when they wake up. Saying they saw their granny and uncle waiting for them with a big plate a ribs. Stuff like that.


Jeezy: and people will believe this?


Holy: they fucking luv it Jeezy. The more outlandish the more truthful their minds will make it. Trust me. They believe in me. I rest my case.


Jeezy: ok, let's go then. I know I'm gonny regret this. I just know I am.

God: that’s my boy. Holy, get one of the angels to go down and bang up a maid. Tell him to look for one called Mary, always liked that name.


The rest, as they say, is all made up too.
 
urban genie said:
Jesus existed, whether he was heaven sent is another matten, tbf the immaculate conception has very strong similarities to the dream Maha Maya has before concevieving Siddhartha Gautama.
Then you have the birth of Issac who was also amiracle birth, so it is easy to see how people would use such to enhance the story of Jesus.


You ask for sources

The writings of the 1st century Romano-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity. Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 CE, includes two references to Jesus in Books 18 and 20.

The Roman historian and senator Tacitusreferred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (c. CE 116), book 15, chapter 44.

He was a real person, but was probably more an activist against the corruptuon of the state than the son of god
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So nothing within 3 generations of his life?
 
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