Football Lads and Lasses against Facism

urban genie said:
This vilification of them as a hooligan gang out to smack people is bollocks though and that is what I am challenging, that notion.
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They admit that is exactly what they are.

They are there to fight with far right hooligans.

How long before totally innocent fans get caught up in their phoney wars or are targeted because they won’t tow the party line?
 
blueinsa said:
They admit that is exactly what they are.

They are there to fight with far right hooligans.

How long before totally innocent fans get caught up in their phoney wars or are targeted because they won’t tow the party line?
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Sorry can you share a fb link of twitter post where they advocate fighting other fans, as I haven't seen one, stand aga8nst dfla marches yes but not lets go for a scrap, mainly they take the piss out of the dfla.
 
blueinsa said:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/13/anti...ght-rise-of-far-right-in-uk-football-7833045/
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That's a metro article quoting some alledged brumie follower waffling on, look on their official pages and see any post advocating violence.

The group’s mission statement reads: ‘It’s time now for those fans who oppose the rise of the right at football to stand up and be counted.
‘As well as mobilising against their marches, we need to counter them at our own clubs, by whatever means is necessary, from leaflet and sticker campaigns to gentle persuasion. ‘Our reason for launching this initiative is based on the alarming and rapid growth of the far-right and fascist groups, particularly among football firms and other supporters.’
The FLAF said it wants fans of each club to fight fascism and racism among their own supporters to curb far right chanting and violence at games.


Now you could say "by any means necessary" is ambiguous but as the last sentence says curbing chanting and violence at games.

Here is the simple question(s)

Do we want groups that advocate discrimination and racism to appear or try and recruit on terraces?
Is there anything wrong with fans that don't the DFLA as the representaive of working class football culture to show a solidarity in the form of a logo badge or sticker?
Is there really any chance suddeny a FLAR mob is gonna spring up at eastlands? or will it be single people who agree with the idea maybe wearing a pin or stickering a few lamp posts?

If peopel rally think we ar esuddenly gonna have 2 mobs of football firms scrapping on a matchday then they are being paranoid, these events (marches and couter marches) happen on non match days in controlled policed areas.

Lastly they have stated themselves they don't want to get involved in local politics and don't encourage action say for the EDL march the other week here, that is the business of locals not fans from around the country.

Anyway I have said my piece support them or don't its individual choice.

More importantly there is a new alien invasion thread down below and it's saturday so off for some light hearted moonery politics scan wait till tomorrow.
 
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Jesus, what a pile of shite. Bogeymen. Some people must spend their entire lives in fear of fuck all.
 
urban genie said:
Does anyone commenting have any active involvement with these, or actually read their social media pages and what they are all about?

Or are most comments just reactive to rascals OP?

I posted about these about 6 months ago on the EDL thread when they were starting up and I think people are misunderstanding their point.

It started out a a couple of fans who wanted to curb any chance of the DFLA using and trying to recruit football fans to far right groups.
The idea was to
  • Oppose any chance of the DFLA influence a clubs fanbase
  • Oppose racist, facist ideology being spread amongst the football community
  • A place for fans ran by fans to work together to oppose discrimination and racism creeping into any fanbase
  • Joining fans in a united community of mutial respect for all walks of life
  • Recognising and celebrating working class unity
At the begining they encouraged leaflet and sticker campaigns organised at club level by fans, a collective symbol or tagline that each set of fans could use to show a solidarity against DFLA influence.
As they went on though fans following them asked about a collective gathering to show opposition to the next DFLA march that happened in London, there wan't some organised plan to go have a scrap, but to stand in unity.

Portraying it as some far left group picking fights with other fans is misleading.

Unlike the DFLA who are happy to have far right groups march alongaide them, they refused to allow more extreme left groups like SWP join or try to influence their gathering and though obviously advocating a more left political ideology want to keep it about fans opposing racism and discrimination not potical posturing and support of political groups..


I see no issue with them as long as they don't advocate or get involved in violence or attacking people.
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Tremendous post.
 
urban genie said:
Does anyone commenting have any active involvement with these, or actually read their social media pages and what they are all about?

Or are most comments just reactive to rascals OP?

I posted about these about 6 months ago on the EDL thread when they were starting up and I think people are misunderstanding their point.

It started out a a couple of fans who wanted to curb any chance of the DFLA using and trying to recruit football fans to far right groups.
The idea was to
  • Oppose any chance of the DFLA influence a clubs fanbase
  • Oppose racist, facist ideology being spread amongst the football community
  • A place for fans ran by fans to work together to oppose discrimination and racism creeping into any fanbase
  • Joining fans in a united community of mutial respect for all walks of life
  • Recognising and celebrating working class unity
At the begining they encouraged leaflet and sticker campaigns organised at club level by fans, a collective symbol or tagline that each set of fans could use to show a solidarity against DFLA influence.
As they went on though fans following them asked about a collective gathering to show opposition to the next DFLA march that happened in London, there wan't some organised plan to go have a scrap, but to stand in unity.

Portraying it as some far left group picking fights with other fans is misleading.

Unlike the DFLA who are happy to have far right groups march alongaide them, they refused to allow more extreme left groups like SWP join or try to influence their gathering and though obviously advocating a more left political ideology want to keep it about fans opposing racism and discrimination not potical posturing and support of political groups..


I see no issue with them as long as they don't advocate or get involved in violence or attacking people.
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Their leader refers to them as a firm.
He's self identified them and associated them with BAMN and Antifa.

You're trying to make it look like these are just concerned citizens which they are not, they are political far left thugs who are equally as bad as their right wing counterparts, the fact that some people on this thread are trying to validate violence for a cause is worrying.
 
urban genie said:
So as your first sentence says you are discarding any actual factual info for what you believe yourself and your own assumptions.

The DFLA trying to insert itself into football culture was seen as an issue by some fans, so they created this social media group

As for the badge, they have only made up one requested by fans of that club or fans can make their own as spurs and norwich fans did at the start, so some blues have obviously asked for them

Also as said a lot of it is leafleting fans and stickering said badges as a sign of solidarity, not mobs of lads going round imposing their belief.

You are not expected to go out on marches or campaign politically, it's basically a common idea that fans will oppose discrimination and racism amongst fans, and if blues want to support it I don't see the harm.

If it morphed into a politicalmovement and a mob to rival and scrap the DFLA mob then it would be different and a waste of time.
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It's fairly obvious what he's saying.

It is a mob it describes itself as a firm and it's a firm that fights against ideas it doesn't like by being physically violent towards them. I get the distinct impression from their twitter page that you're deemed to be a Nazi if you're a Tori or even voted UKIP, football fans will see through the charade.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
Their leader refers to them as a firm.
He's self identified them and associated them with BAMN and Antifa.

You're trying to make it look like these are just concerned citizens which they are not, they are political far left thugs who are equally as bad as their right wing counterparts, the fact that some people on this thread are trying to validate violence for a cause is worrying.
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Last post this because I am not that arsed about them to waste another, but as I said in my first post on here al lthis having a go at them ses to be based on assumption not fact, so I will ask again.
Has anyone actually been involved with them dirrectly, been to the 2 get togethers they have invited people or seen this self refered to firm in action?

Because I have seen the DFLA when they came to town amd acted the goat, so I can say what I have seen with certainty, with the FLAR I cannot and can go off what people have posted what they have done and mainly it is fans stickering amd leafleting from different clubs.

I also said there is no reports of fans fighting come out, in fact in their only real get together in London on Oct 13 they decided not to join the BAMN contingent and other and stood alone as a fan group (or firm if you like) opposing them, and the scuffles that happened were not where they were apparently.

Also as much as they like to use the terrace term "a firm" they ain't one, more like a a collective ideal shared amongst fans that discrimination and any far right influence creeping into a fan base.

Finaly I am not involved with these, never bought their badges or stickers or advocating people associating with them, but also not saying you shouldn't either, and I am not going to claim they are some firm out scrapping or load of hard left infiltrators causing trouble, because there is no evidence of that bar a few retweets of AF tweets by them, we know who runs the DFLA and that they split from the FLA because they opposed it's no extreme banner policy, and has associated itself with far right and neo nazi fans groups in europe.

Yes City doesn't have a problem with the far right on the terraces, but DFLA flags have been seen at other grounds and with society split so strongly between left/right and center though unlikely it would happen here, people are becoming more polarised.

Personnally I would prefer none of them to exist and people just go enjoy the football

This is not the only discussion on these going on, other fans forums have the same and comments are similar, though with more support for this from some clubs fans than others.

Like them, hate them, laugh at them, whatever I wasn't advocating them or discouraging support for them just challenging assumption over what is known.

With that doubt I can add any more to this thread.
 
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urban genie said:
Last post this because I am not that arsed about them to waste another, but as I said in my first post on here al lthis having a go at them ses to be based on assumption not fact, so I will ask again.
Has anyone actually been involved with them dirrectly, been to the 2 get togethers they have invited people or seen this self refered to firm in action?

Because I have seen the DFLA when they came to town amd acted the goat, so I can say what I have seen with certainty, with the FLAR I cannot and can go off what people have posted what they have done and mainly it is fans stickering amd leafleting from different clubs.

I also said there is no reports of fans fighting come out, in fact in their only real get together in London on Oct 13 they decided not to join the BAMN contingent and other and stood alone as a fan group (or firm if you like) opposing them, and the scuffles that happened were not where they were apparently.

Also as much as they like to use the terrace term "a firm" they ain't one, more like a a collective ideal shared amongst fans that discrimination and any far right influence creeping into a fan base.

Finaly I am not involved with these, never bought their badges or stickers or advocating people associating with them, but also not saying you shouldn't either, and I am not going to claim they are some firm out scrapping or load of hard left infiltrators causing trouble, because there is no evidence of that bar a few retweets of AF tweets by them, we know who runs the DFLA and that they split from the FLA because they opposed it's no extreme banner policy, and has associated itself with far right and neo nazi fans groups in europe.

Yes City doesn't have a problem with the far right on the terraces, but DFLA flags have been seen at other grounds and with society split so strongly between left/right and center though unlikely it would happen here, people are becoming more polarised.

Personnally I would prefer none of them to exist and people just go enjoy the football

This is not the only discussion on these going on, other fans forums have the same and comments are similar, though with more support for this from some clubs fans than others.

Like them, hate them, laugh at them, whatever I wasn't advocating them or discouraging support for them just challenging assumption over what is known.

With that doubt I can add any more to this thread.
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Their Twitter page is littered with violence it literally reeks of it, I'd go as far as to say that it's all it's about, it isn't about anything else but getting violent and being violent, any organisation who comes under the banner of Antifa and BAMN is as disgraceful as the NF and EDL, there is no righteous side to be on they're both unwelcome.

A lot of their so called members think that Tories and UKIP are fascists, they should be called what they are and that is far left the flip side to the far right.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
Their Twitter page is littered with violence it literally reeks of it, I'd go as far as to say that it's all it's about, it isn't about anything else but getting violent and being violent, any organisation who comes under the banner of Antifa and BAMN is as disgraceful as the NF and EDL, there is no righteous side to be on they're both unwelcome.

A lot of their so called members think that Tories and UKIP are fascists, they should be called what they are and that is far left the flip side to the far right.
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Oh yeah I see what you mean










Not one of their last 5 tweets incites any violence, ues theu have deplied to and retweeted other posts from anti facist groups but in none of those replies or retweets do they advocate violence they do not mention the BAMN group or have links provided to their web pages, unless yoy mean he recent retweets of Mersyside AFN? A completely different thing

Maybe some people replying are the usual twitter cranks, but every page has that, and I love how fans opposing facism, racism or discrimination is now considered extreme Left, it should be what we all want, but then that's the victory of the right recently to have already shut down any left leaning comment as extreme.

i said I wasn't going to reply again, but there is the evidence of my previous post in actual tweets by them.

Anyway this time I am done as there is no leway in the debate, so pointless conituing
I will say again I am not part of the FLAF, but at the same time they are not a threat to City fans or any other and that is all I am saying @Rascal put up the badge and link if anyone is interested in being a part of it good for them.

If not then fair enough
 
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urban genie said:
Oh yeah I see what you mean










Not one of their last 5 tweets 8ncites any violence, ues theu have deplied to and retweeted other posts from anti facist groups but in none of those replies or retweets do they advocate violence they do not mention the BAMN group or have links provided to their web pages, unless yoy mean he recent retweets of Mersyside AFN? A completely different thing

i said I wasn't going to reply again, but there is the evidence of my previous post in actual tweets by them.

Anyway this time I am done as there is no leway in the debate, so pointless conituing
I will say again I am not part of the FLAF, but at the same time they are not a threat to City fans or any other and that is all I am saying @Rascal put up the badge and link if anyone is interested in being a part of it good for them.

If not then fair enough
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You're being selective, why don't you post the tweets and posts on facebook about how they fought well on the streets?

So to reiterate, anyone who is interested to join in Marxism which is much nicer than fascism and joining a firm where you get to wear face coverings and black and red uniforms then apply at the MCFC ticket office. The DEFAULT position for most people is one of against Fascism ans it might hurt some peoples feelings against Marxism, using football fans as a means to an end is pointless and it will fail.
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
You're being selective, why don't you post the tweets and posts on facebook about how they fought well on the streets?

So to reiterate, anyone who is interested to join in Marxism which is much nicer than fascism and joining a firm where you get to wear face coverings and black and red uniforms then apply at the MCFC ticket office. The DEFAULT position for most people is one of against Fascism ans it might hurt some peoples feelings against Marxism, using football fans as a means to an end is pointless and it will fail.
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I have edited my post, while you was replying to address that as I said the organisers of the pages have not posted anything about commiting violence, people in the replies have but they are a different matter and unfortunately social media is full of bellends

Black and red face masks? You are mistakig them for the AFN that they have reposted articles from, doubt the lads at Villa, Saints QPR or WBA who's stickers were recently posted were all in black on the terrace that day.
People are too easily putting all left wingers or all right wingers in to one pot each

Tories are not ukip
Ukip are not the bnp (yet)
DFLA are not tory but more UKIP


Same

Labour are not the SWP
FLAR are not Class war

They are only a threat if they are made into one.

Plus fucked if I know how to post fb pages on here
 
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What definition of "Working class" do you have to fall into to become a member of the party?

I take it having a job is one?
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
The DEFAULT position for most people is one of against Fascism ans it might hurt some peoples feelings against Marxism, using football fans as a means to an end is pointless and it will fail.
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You're right, but if that default position is entirely passive then it might as well be supportive for all the good it does. Do I really have to quote this?....

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

The history of the rise of fascism is always accompanied by "moderate" right wing passivity and I mean always.

If you've got such a bee in your bonnet about the left monopolising the resistance to the far right then point folk in the direction of a moderate right wing alternative, you'll have difficulty pal, as there isn't one.
 
The perfect fumble said:
You're right, but if that default position is entirely passive then it might as well be supportive for all the good it does. Do I really have to quote this?....

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

The history of the rise of fascism is always accompanied by "moderate" right wing passivity and I mean always.

If you've got such a bee in your bonnet about the left monopolising the resistance to the far right then point folk in the direction of a moderate right wing alternative, you'll have difficulty pal, as there isn't one.
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Quotes don't really mean anything at all do they?

The discussion isn't about pointing any moderate to any moderate the discussion is about keeping vile extremist political views away from people who don't like either as a default. Far right are a disgrace far left are a disgrace don't you agree?
 
oldtimerdiscopants said:
Quotes don't really mean anything at all do they?
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Colour doesn't mean anything to the blind, that doesn't tell you much about colour, but it does tell you a lot about blindness.

oldtimerdiscopants said:
The discussion isn't about pointing any moderate to any moderate the discussion is about keeping vile extremist political views away from people who don't like either as a default.
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No it isn't

oldtimerdiscopants said:
Far right are a disgrace far left are a disgrace don't you agree?
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No.
 
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