Var debate 2019/20

Ancient Citizen said:
I don't know if it has been mentioned in what is becoming a long thread, but VAR was supposed to be the
end of all argument. That we're on here 90 odd pages on, it's clear that it's doing nothing of the sort, yes it
happens to be City who have copped for what looks a contentious decision, but very soon, the same sort of
thing will happen to the Dippers/Rags, or whoever. When it does, and it will, the fundamental reason for
VAR's existence will be nullified, if folk are arguing like fuck even more than before its introduction, and all they're
getting in return is play stopping at the most exciting and critical stages, interminable delays, running back and forth
to telly's, whilst frustration mounts, it's going to cause more problems than it was introduced to stop.
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There is absolutely no chance of what happened to us happening to the rags or dippers. Non at all.
 
ojeme said:
The guy is right by calling you a coward I'm afraid. You're defending an illegality with words like "micro seconds, slight" etc whilst ignoring that that slight touch had a big impact. Was that not what VAR was brought to solve - those "micro second" hugely vague events? But here they stuck to a very unclear footage and you are fine with that?

You excuse the officials for not chalking it off citing the "micro seconds" excuse but you are down with them cancelling a City goal that was deemed offside in micro seconds.

Ask yourself and answer sincerely, isnt that what a coward would do?

Pep made a few mistakes, Laporte plenty, etc. Who doesn't? And that's a seperate issue but going out of your way to justify an illegality doesn't look good you at all. Is it so hard to admit that our mistakes AND poor/bent officiating cost us the game?
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Please explain in the context of this thread what you mean by coward which from the Oxford English Dictionary equates to ;
"a person who is too scared to do dangerous or unpleasant things".
Mmmmmmmmmmm !!!
So because (and I`m not alone on my thoughts as others too have agreed that shit happens) I go against the grain,I`m branded a coward.
Please,surely I`m brave and not a coward if I go against the general consensus.I do hate sheep followers. ;)
Understand your English language and words my friend before you make silly remarks .... something which you say I am doing.NO I have my opinion and am sticking by it.
I can just imagine the outcry on here had the roles been reversed and Vinnie had this same type of goal ruled out.We would now be on page 3000.
I take it you are one of those people who didn`t mind Sergio scoring the 3rd goal against Arsenal at home courtesy of a handball.
Then again it doesn`t suit some peoples narrative to totally ignore how its helped our boys previously.
And you talk about double standards !!
Unbelievablejeff !!
 
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trublue55 said:
You keep banging on to this effect, and say football opinion is against us.

I have moved on, (and am already looking forward to tomorrows challenge) , but moving on, not least of all because nothing is going to change, does not make it right.
As i have posted earlier, i don't really like Rossiter's directive, that was issued in January, prior to the knockout stages, that made it clear (a directive!!) that changes due to be implemented from June 1st, aided by VAR, were to be introduced immediately for the Champions League, nobody, neither you, nor me, have to like those changes, but if the powers that be decree they are in force, those should be the rules that are played to.
So, the very directive that resulted in penalties at Schalke, PSG, and the first leg at Spurs, is the same directive, that should have ruled out Llorente's goal. I'm sorry, that's not an opinion, its a fact. Incidentally if they are going to use VAR to improve /get things right, the penalty at Spurs should categorically have been re-taken, as Vertonghen encroached (NOT marginally), and ultimately he cleared it.

With regards to the Aguero offside, i've no idea if he was or wasn't offside, at the crucial moment, (when it left Bernardo's right leg), so far they have failed to show the correct freeze frame, merely an earlier moment before the ball touched Bernardo, and Aguero was moving back towards being onside. Somehow they managed to show Mane with the brightly coloured lines to demonstrate he was onside in the other semi, and that was broadcast at half time.Where is the picture with the lines on, that the VAR official ruled on?

Nothing will change the outcome, my issue is not with using VAR, but with using it correctly, and following their own directive's!!
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You are a true blue!
 
oakiecokie said:
Please explain in the context of this thread what you mean by coward which from the Oxford English Dictionary equates to ;
"a person who is too scared to do dangerous or unpleasant things".
Mmmmmmmmmmm !!!
So because (and I`m alone on my thoughts as others too have agreed that shit happens) I go against the grain,I`m branded a coward.
Please,surely I`m brave and not a coward if I go against the general consensus.I do hate sheep followers. ;)
Understand your English language and words my friend before you make silly remarks .... something which you say I am doing.NO I have my opinion and am sticking by it.
I can just imagine the outcry on here had the roles been reversed and Vinnie had this same type of goal ruled out.We would now be on page 3000.
I take it you are one of those people who didn`t mind Sergio scoring the 3rd goal against Arsenal at home courtesy of a handball.
Then again it doesn`t suit some peoples narrative to totally ignore how its helped our boys previously.
And you talk about double standards !!
Unbelievablejeff !!
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Aguero's goal was wrongly awarded. Had Kompany scored with his arms assisting the goal, I'd graciously take it the way I took Aguero's offside goal vs Swansea but never once would I admit that it shouldn't count. Even Llorente would have zero complaints had the goal been chalked off.

Your show of cowardice stems from your insistence on hanging on to falsehood (I mean no disrespect, so apologies). Its courageous to admit wrong and move on. Here's a definition from the internet: Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excessive self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good, and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.
 
My brother went to Uni with a friend whose job is to decide which VAR clips the refs gets to see. A very important job for the future. I could give his name but that's probably not fair!
He is a lifelong United supporter.
 
ojeme said:
Aguero's goal was wrongly awarded. Had Kompany scored with his arms assisting the goal, I'd graciously take it the way I took Aguero's offside goal vs Swansea but never once would I admit that it shouldn't count. Even Llorente would have zero complaints had the goal been chalked off.

Your show of cowardice stems from your insistence on hanging on to falsehood (I mean no disrespect, so apologies). Its courageous to admit wrong and move on. Here's a definition from the internet: Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excessive self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good, and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.
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So once again you use the word "coward" when its not warranted.
I could also claim that all those people who think that shit should not happen are cowards,based on your reference that ""cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.
So our challenge being shit on/or not forms the basis of cowardice.
You can`t have it both ways sunshine.
If you honestly think that for one moment you would have accepted the refs decision,had it been a Vinny goal or not you would have taken that decision without any form of being out-raged.
I don`t know who you`re trying to kid,maybe yourself,but certainly not me.
A coward ... because I feel that the goal should stand ,based on other peoples perception that the referee was NOT given other angles to view.The fact that its also BT Sports fault for some unfathomable reason BUT NOT the shit defence on the night.
We move on and look forward to another City win tomorrow and onwards to being crowned PL Champions ... of that I have no doubt as these players will be really up for another fight.
 
SebastianBlue said:
There are actually many on twitter arguing that’s not true as there is no evidence of it in Bundesliga and the MLS, where it’s already being used.

But that is not true, they just don’t know any German or American fans to ask. I know many of both, and have watched games in both leagues (Frankfurt, Wolfsburg, and several different MLS clubs, including Portland and Vancouver, which is as close to our support as it gets in the US), and it absolutely has impacted the experience and there are many fans not happy about it. And that’s coming from Germans and Americans who both normally love these sorts of video review systems (though, for different reasons). Only the fans that like other sport that have had video review, and have become accustomed to the long breaks of play, strange decision making, and anti-climatic outcomes are really fine with it.
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Fans hate it in Germany and Holland
 
Young Blue said:
My brother went to Uni with a friend whose job is to decide which VAR clips the refs gets to see. A very important job for the future. I could give his name but that's probably not fair!
He is a lifelong United supporter.
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Don’t need his name.
Just a photo and address, would do!
 
oakiecokie said:
I take it you are one of those people who didn`t mind Sergio scoring the 3rd goal against Arsenal at home courtesy of a handball.
Then again it doesn`t suit some peoples narrative to totally ignore how its helped our boys previously.
And you talk about double standards !!
Unbelievablejeff !![/QUOTE

Sorry to be pedantic, the point about about Sergio’s 3rd against Arsenal and Llorente’s goal is one was domestic (premier League, and the other was European (champions league). Currently in the prem, both should and would count as goals, because although both involved a hand, neither was intentional, so under current English rules, both are goals. The confusion appears to arise because in January, eufa issued a directive (Rossetti) that the rules with regard to accidental handball were going to change, (this will happen from June 1st). So next year, intent is irrelevant, and both “goals” would be disallowed. That would be fairly straightforward, apart from the fact that eufa decreed, via this directive, that, aided by VAR, these changes would come into effect immediately, ie from knockout stages of champions league.

So, as I have posted earlier, although I am not particularly keen on these new rules with regards to accidental handball, it is solely these rules, as decreed by eufa, that led to (previously) contentious penalties at Schalke, PSG and Spurs away, being given, and it is that same directive that should have ensured Llorente’s goal was ruled out.

Anybody can like, or dislike the rules, they can campaign to change them, but as long as they are the rules, they should be adhered to.
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More a reflection on fans reaction to such a dramatic winner ultimately being ruled out, rather than the fact that we went out, when in honesty, no one in the stadium, players, fans, officials etc thought there was any problem, I truthfully did not think VAR was brought in to microscopically check every goal, although that has definitely became the case, particularly with regards to a factual line decision such as offside.
. I thought it was brought in to correct game changing howlers. The problem is, now they have started to do it, and they have the power, they won’t give it up. Offside was brought in to stop “goal hanging”, not to rule out an otherwise perfectly good goal, because someone was a millimetre ahead, and they now have the technology to check it ( pity they didn’t do that properly Wednesday)
 
I am confused by the process.

Is every goal analysed, if not does the video ref or the ref himself ask for the option to view footage?
 
oakiecokie said:
So once again you use the word "coward" when its not warranted.
I could also claim that all those people who think that shit should not happen are cowards,based on your reference that ""cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.
So our challenge being shit on/or not forms the basis of cowardice.
You can`t have it both ways sunshine.
If you honestly think that for one moment you would have accepted the refs decision,had it been a Vinny goal or not you would have taken that decision without any form of being out-raged.
I don`t know who you`re trying to kid,maybe yourself,but certainly not me.
A coward ... because I feel that the goal should stand ,based on other peoples perception that the referee was NOT given other angles to view.The fact that its also BT Sports fault for some unfathomable reason BUT NOT the shit defence on the night.
We move on and look forward to another City win tomorrow and onwards to being crowned PL Champions ... of that I have no doubt as these players will be really up for another fight.
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And again I'd say that mistakes made by us and refs' incompetence or cheating are two seperate matters. We did a lot of good things over two legs but did some pretty terrible ones too which proved costly. I still maintain that if the refs had done their jobs objectively, we would have gone through inspite of the fact that we made it hard for ourselves in being casual with the first leg, penalty missed, shit defending, some selections, etc. These do no detract from the fact that what was done to us the other day warrants investigation.

Think of it this way, even Llorente would have no qualms if the goal was disallowed because he knew that hks forearm helped the ball in. If I was a Spirs fan I can tell you that I'd be gutted if the goal was disallowed (who wouldn't) but I'd never never tag it as an incorrect decision. I'd be massively gutted because a massive chance to progress has just been lost. Its one thing to take a goal and another thing to admit it was wrongly awarded. They are not mutually exclusive events.
 
Var is a joke according to Manchester's own transport chiefs. Well I certainly hope someone doesn't get too drunk tonight and smash the fucking thing up


https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...anchester-transport-chiefs-back-more-16154077

57387459_10158694552822575_471425377164591104_n.jpg
 
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I thonk Bar was use 5 times over 2 matches. Sons goal and our penalty in 1st match. Kompany handball Lorente goal and Aguero offside in return match. Probably all var decisions were correct. Aguero not scoring from a penalty that we didn't even appeal for is still the main reason we didn't qualify as well as Laporte having an absolute stinker along with Delph asleep for Sons goal in 1st match.
 
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