Var debate 2019/20

[Maccblue]

VAR is only as good as the rules
Unfortunately the rules are not clear and until they are black/white VAR will always be open to debate
After what Ive seen recently I rather take the old some you win some you lose scenario as we’ve had for the last 125 years

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

This Rossetti edict will it be open to interpretation or written in stone.:-)

It'll be a load of old Blarney.

 

[Pedestrian]

It’ll change the game like stopping the pass back to the keeper did for the players and make it more like American fake rugby for the fans. The advertising opportunities have already been utilised in the US.

 

[Muttley59]

Ive grown up playing both football and rugby union. 50 years a city fan and 40 years playing rugby, 20 of those as a rugby ref. A couple of my friends are international VAR officials. It looks as though the var footy guys are current referees, so why dont eufa / prem league give these guys the responsibility to make the decisions ? They have access to all the camera angles, slo mo replays etc. By all means discuss it with the ref & assistants, explain, then recommend a decision ? Instead we have the farce of an adrenaline filled ref running to the touchline then having to operate the screen whilst rushing to make a decision. Just plain crazy making the whole system look amateurish.

 

[Beyond Belief]

The slowed down footage clearly shows the ball deflected off Llorente’s arm before hitting his thigh and ended up in the net.

AS’s resident referee Iturralde González commented: ”It hits his hand first then his hip and the UEFA instructions are clear: you can't score if it hits your hand, even if it’s involuntary. It doesn't matter if the elbow is tight to the body. If it happens to a defender it's not a penalty, but if it's an attacker it has to be disallowed. Rossetti has told the UEFA referees.”

He added: "Irrati (the VAR) - the number one VAR official - advises Çakir because he's seen a hand. When Çakir comes back from seeing the images he tells the players 'I didn't see anything. It hit his thigh.' They didn't play him the view from behind where you can see it hits the elbow. The error from the VAR is not showing the two key images. Why? The question is getting it right, not how long it takes."

AS’s resident ref's conclusion: "Manchester City are out because the VAR wasn't used properly".
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1469129-fernando-llorentes-handball-v-man-city-slowed-down-footage-emerges?amp

My conclusion: People in the VAR room had the luxury of having multiple angles and clearly saw that the ball hit the arm of Llorente but refused to show that angle because there was an agenda already.

Exactly mate, they have Peter Walton on BT that seems to have a nice, convenient and telepathic relationship with the cretins in the VAR room. They never seem to disagree or show any inconsistency and Peter always seems to manage to predict what the outcome is going to be before anyone else because reasons

 

[NoApologiesForBeingSpurs]

Noapolsforbeingspurs what you may have realised now in the top trumps of getting sh*t decisions we trump the lot, don't doubt you've felt shafted when playing the dippers, rags et al but when you play City we trump the lot Spurs included.

Actually I do appreciate that you have had far more than your fair share of bad decisions against you, all I was saying was how I had assumed rule changes would adversely impact spurs in isolation: it was wasn't intended to be as a comparison to you guys. And I agree we've had a few decisions against you as lasereyes listed. None of those made any difference in the final standings in the league (I think those seasons you either won or got top 4 whilst being a fair way off of champions, the decisions against Spurs that I was thinking of have been in cup semis and finals so they hurt more (from my perspective) especially as they have been against Arsenal and Chelsea

As fans we are always going to notice what goes against us more than decisions in our favour. After yesterday I saw loads of Spurs comments about how VAR would have changed the game yesterday because of walker's handball / penalty lack of decision. I pointed out to them that view ignored that you probably would have been awarded a penalty by VAR before then to make it 2-0 and leave you out of sight. If Son had taken one of his chances to equalise then you guys would have been bemoaning why you dropped points because of the lack of penalty award and glossed over the Walker incident.

As the handball rule changes for the CL final (stupidly! why not change it the day after?) IF we get there I fully expect that rule to be invoked against us. Its just the eternal pessimism of a spurs fan: a similar pervasive sentiment that I detect on here. There's a lot of similarities historically between our clubs and our traditional fan bases, probably why most Spurs fans I know would rather you have success than the other four of the 'big 6'.

 

[Super David Silva 21]

So they're bringing in VAR next season but the referee will not have access to a video screen, it will be for another official to rule on

 

[come-on-barney]

We could get rid of referees and have the whole game officiated from a van.

 

[spacecadet]

We could get rid of referees and have the whole game officiated from a van.

And linesman too.

 

[BlueHammer85]

No VAR cost us (West Ham) yesterday, perfectly good goal ruled out - why should this be accepted

 

[SebastianBlue]

No VAR cost us (West Ham) yesterday, perfectly good goal ruled out - why should this be accepted

What until those goals are ruled out with VAR...

So they're bringing in VAR next season but the referee will not have access to a video screen, it will be for another official to rule on

Was just coming on to post this. An implementation that is even less transparent than UEFA’s and lends more to covert manipulation. It is worse than many of us were worried about, unfortunately.

 

[oakiecokie]

It would be better for the game if the ref didn`t tell anyone the actual score of the match until the end of the game.Have no kicks offs at all if a goal is scored and lets be kept on tenterhooks until the end of the game,with the ref announcing the actual winners.

 

[come-on-barney]

A Uefa spokesperson simply said when asked to comment: “All relevant angles were made available to the referee to take his decision last night.”

So, why did the referee only have the one angle to make the decision? Is this not a factual statement or did the referee decide not take a look at all angles available to him. Whichever way you look it something isn’t right here.

 

[dubblue]

A Uefa spokesperson simply said when asked to comment: “All relevant angles were made available to the referee to take his decision last night.”

So, why did the referee only have the one angle to make the decision? Is this not a factual statement or did the referee decide not take a look at all angles available to him. Whichever way you look it something isn’t right here.

I think Peps anger at the journo yesterday when asked about the decisions makes me think he would agree with your last sentence. Something along the lines of “don’t ask me about the referee on Wednesday “.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Young kids near me literally crying with joy when Sterling scored, only to have it taken away despite the officials 'giving' the goal initially. How to alienate youngsters from the game

But games every week have goals scored and the crowd go mental only for the ref to run over to lino, have a chat and rule out the goal. It’s no different, except we now know the ref can have a chance of a second look.

 

[kaz7]

Perhaps you missed in my post that he may have accepted ball and hand made contact?
My post questioned whether he was looking for arm movement to indicate deliberate handball.

I know its a strange thing to do, particularly on the City Forum, but I always try to look at things from the other persons point of view (not to necessarily agree with them) then compare it with alternatives.

I may very well come round to your opinion but not just yet if you don't mind.

The rules were changed after the nico handball to if it strikes the arm of hand it's handball,intent doesn't count in the cl since then

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The rules were changed after the nico handball to if it strikes the arm of hand it's handball,intent doesn't count in the cl since then

I don't think that's true. I don't think there has been a change of guidance (and definitely no rule changes) since the knockout phases started.

They announced the rule changes for next season just after the Schalke match, which includes that you can't score off an arm (including indirectly, as in Llorente's case), amongst other things.

 

[kaz7]

I don't think that's true. I don't think there has been a change of guidance (and definitely no rule changes) since the knockout phases started.

They announced the rule changes for next season just after the Schalke match, which includes that you can't score off an arm (including indirectly, as in Llorente's case), amongst other things.

I'm pretty sure they changed it as with the monitor not working they were looking stupid so came out with the rule that if it hits you it's handball,the whole handball thing is a mess,it's applied differently every week,players will just wack it at defenders to get pens,it's ridiculous

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I..,players will just wack it at defenders to get pens,it's ridiculous

This bit is certainly a risk for next season.

It depends how good/bad/random the judgement of 'natural silhouette' is made, all with VAR. Bring a pillow to the match, it could go on all night!

 

[ancoats]

you have to question VAR next season in the premier league ??? it simply will be a joke if a game is decided by a mistake by the team VAR, like the uefa champions league game city vs spurs when clearly the edit or the clip shown to the ref was the wrong clip to spot handball ?? they knew there was a clip showing handball but held it back ???

VAR should only be used for clear and obvious mistakes by the referee/officials when its a mile offside or in or outside the box, and if your a referee or linesman that can not see clearly enough when the game is playing live then you should not be in the game, cheating is what we all seen in the champions league game and clear and obvious mistakes was made by uefa and the VAR officials doing the game, so why we will trust the premier league using VAR when you see mo salah diving around getting soft pen without VAR this season

manchester city games will be the tool VAR that gets used the most and everything will be highlighted even the toss of the coin would be questioned