Var debate 2019/20

[simon23]

Having a linesman patrolling each half of the pitch on both sides, & linesmen either side of each goal was mooted, but was deemed to expensive, & too interfering.

After what I've seen this season so far, I'd have 8 assistants & a referee as well as VAR. They need all the help they can get before this blows up.

thing is they have/had extra assitants in the champs league behind the goals didnt they and i never saw one of them ever make a decision ever!

 

[GaudinoMotors]

nice username......wonder how long this one lasts

You don't have to be Jeremy Wade.

 

[Bunchofdickovs]

So why wasn’t the pen given?

because a foul is subjective and different people see fouls differently ( tolerance levels ) if the match official is happy with a challenge and sees it as fair then overruling him because you see it differently would make a mockery of it .

go to the screen and a pen is given imo.

one ref last season gave a pen for sterling tripping over his own feet and then we have a ref that doesn't give what most sane football supporters consider a blatant one . The officials aren't great though in this country but not that much better in europe.

they will introduce a red button to vote pen or no pen soon lol

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

When questioned about it, the ref was pointing to his earpiece & shrugging his shoulders. I can only take that to mean, 'No one's pointed it out to me mate'.

There was an arm around Rodri's neck.

There was contact with his legs.

The opposition player fell the fuck on top of Rodri.

With VAR in operation, on what planet isn't that a fuckin penalty?

Planet PiGMOL .

 

[MillionMilesAway]

thing is they have/had extra assitants in the champs league behind the goals didnt they and i never saw one of them ever make a decision ever!

They weren't meant to wave anything, they had buzzers on the sticks or headsets instead.
I remember seeing one give something once.

 

[Dribble]

PL instruction is to not disrupt the match with pitchside reviews. I posted these excerpts on Saturday:

BBC 2 weeks ago:
"VAR automatically checks all key incidents during a game, but the video officials' role will be informed by their on-field colleague, who describes to them what they have seen and why they have reached their conclusion.
It is only if the replays show a different version of events to that described by the on-field referee that the VAR team will step in. The on-field referee will then decide whether to accept and act on the VAR official's view of the incident. This may involve the use of the pitch-side monitor, although the Premier League says this will be used sparingly, for incidents either not seen by the on-field ref or for those outside of their expected range."

Telegraph:
How does this work in practice?

• The VAR speaks to the on-field referee through an earpiece, or vica versa, and the referee will put his hand up to pause play and inform the players a decision is being reviewed.
• VAR reviews the video footage of the incident and advises whether or not action should be taken. If there has been an error, the referee will draw a rectangle with his arms to replicate a TV a screen to change his original decision.
• In the case of more subjective incidents, the VAR will instruct the referee to watch a replay on a pitchside screen. This is known as an on-pitch review.

Firstly, referees have been told to avoid on-pitch reviews at the pitch-side screen whenever possible. These types of review are known to cause the longest delays. Instead, on-pitch referees have been told to trust the advice they are given by VAR.
There has also been a pledge from former referee Neil Swarbrick, the man leading VAR's implementation in the Premier League, to stick to a'higher threshold' for reviewing decisions and only intervene in the case of 'clear and obvious' errors (does not apply to offsides, remember).

goal.com
Premier League referees have been encouraged to limit the time they use the video review area at the side of the pitch, which has been identified as a notable source of delay in VAR calls.
Instead of reviewing every call flagged by the VAR assistants, it is hoped that match officials will trust the advice given to them by their colleagues. However, the referee can still take time to review if necessary.
Relating to that, the Premier League has taken steps to keep the supporters and those watching the game on TV informed about the process and rationale of decisions.

However, we as football fans know that millions could be watching the same match, & still come to millions of differing opinions on what just took place.

To limit the use of pitch side monitors may speed up the game, but what about subjectivity? Who's to say the ref may have a different point of view to VAR once he's seen it? Things do look different first hand, to recorded.

This is bollocks. This is like me saying I don't trust my own eyes & ears, & need someone to constantly explain to me what I've just seen.

This being the case, why don't we just fuck off on field refs & assistants & stick with VAR?

 

[Dribble]

I do think Dean was checking with the linesman for the Mahrez foul. It wouldn't surprise me if refs have been told to take that half second extra, as VAR will kick in anyway.

But again, is that VAR's remit?

 

[Dribble]

thing is they have/had extra assitants in the champs league behind the goals didnt they and i never saw one of them ever make a decision ever!

Apparently their roles are extremely limited, less than a linesman.

 

[waspish]

I don't believe they can overrule the ref on a subjective call like a potential foul . IF the ref is adamant that he saw the incident and he's happy with his call then VAR aren't there to overrule him.

In the world cup those incidents were often checked on the pitch side tv but the premier league or ref union don't want every decision to take 5 minutes to review so we end up playing for 3 hours .

Every supporter i have spoken with from different clubs agree it was a pen. Let's hope it's a lesson learned .

They can overrule referee if the referee asks oliver didnt ask because he is bias twat never gives us penalties.

 

[simon23]

who is IFAB...id never heard this mentioned before weekend but their wording on the handball is slightly different:

They wrote an explanation for the reason for changing the rule which states:

if the player gains position or control following a handball and gain a major advantage e.g. score or create a goal-scoring opportunity.

this is worded ever so slightly different but does make a difference

 

[MillionMilesAway]

But again, is that VAR's remit?

As I understand it:
VAR will identify penalties that are't given. So if the ref plays on, VAR should tell him if his missed something.

The IFAB protocol has this wording:
The referee may receive assistance from the VAR only in relation to four categories of match-changing decisions/incidents. In all these situations, the VAR is only used after the referee has made a (first/original) decision (including allowing play to continue), or if a serious incident is missed/not seen by the match officials.
The referee`s original decision will not be changed unless there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ (this includes any decision made by the referee based on information from another match official e.g. offside).

and also
The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:

(a - goals)

b. Penalty kick/no penalty kick

• attacking team offence in the build-up to the penalty incident (handball, foul, offside etc.)
  ball out of play prior to the incident
• location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
• penalty kick incorrectly awarded
• penalty kick offence not penalised

http://theifab.com/laws/chapter/38/section/134/

If they're doing something different, then who knows what they're doing. I've not seen anything saying that this isn't given.

(edited twice to add text)

 

[BlueHammer85]

I personally think that if there enough complaints from fans, not just us, VAR will be binned.
I just can't see it lasting.

so we scrap VAR ... future scenarios :

Liverpool v City ... Salah goes through on goal and does a ridiculous dive - fans all appeal, Lino isn't sure, Refs view it looks like he got clattered - Ref gives a penalty .

Corner kick, ref spots a shove by a city player on a Liverpool player and awards a penalty - fans bemused as to what for.

long ball over the top, Salah miles offside, plays on and scores a goal.

++

all the above was happening week in week out in games and the accusations of corruption and anger was felt - Are you really saying if we scrap VAR everyone will just be happy and can accept decisions like the those above ? i'd be happy to go back to old system if fans really just accepted the refs decisions.


at least with VAR we have a fighting chance of implementing the correct decisions, however long it takes and it has a long way to go. I personally think they have bought in too much too soon, they should have implemented each law season by season , ie: for this season, VAR used just for offsides , next season for something else.

- one thing i agree with everyone, the spontaneous reaction when a goal goes in has been massively hampered, this is something i fully agree with. However, my honest opinion is i'd rather not be cheated/robbed by a ref/lino who has no clue on the incident and makes a wild guess.

I'm not sticking to my guns on this, i would favor scraping VAR if it's a total disaster, but i will give it a lot longer than 2 games.

 

[Dribble]

Football law-makers IFAB deliver worrying VAR verdict following Man City vs Spurs controversy

https://www.football.london/premier-league/football-law-makers-ifab-deliver-16778334

“The VAR concept is still at the beginning. We talked to other sports and everyone told us this is a 10-year project until people really understand how it works.”

Brud insists that Premier League match officials are fully behind the introduction of the technology despite the teething problems.

“Referees report back to us that this is something they have always wanted, for various reasons,” he added.

“Every single referee has said to us, ‘For us, it’s great. We don’t have to be afraid of killing our careers.’

“They will have someone to fall back on and they love it."

Sooooo, referees are happy because they can absolve themselves of any responsibility & blame it on VAR?? WTF!

 

[kaz7]

With the Var rules regarding handballs in the box yep it was the right Decision what Im more worried about is those bent Fcuks in var box not noticing the concrete penalty on Rodri?! Hopefully from now on those incidents will be given as pens.

Hopefully not,why should any other team benefit when we didn't,they are using us to try things out so maybe they will change it,they shouldn't change anything till next season now but i think the rules will get softened along the way

 

[Bunchofdickovs]

who is IFAB...id never heard this mentioned before weekend but their wording on the handball is slightly different:

They wrote an explanation for the reason for changing the rule which states:

if the player gains position or control following a handball and gain a major advantage e.g. score or create a goal-scoring opportunity.

this is worded ever so slightly different but does make a difference

IFAB are games rule makers .

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

Football law-makers IFAB deliver worrying VAR verdict following Man City vs Spurs controversy

https://www.football.london/premier-league/football-law-makers-ifab-deliver-16778334

“The VAR concept is still at the beginning. We talked to other sports and everyone told us this is a 10-year project until people really understand how it works.”

Brud insists that Premier League match officials are fully behind the introduction of the technology despite the teething problems.

“Referees report back to us that this is something they have always wanted, for various reasons,” he added.

“Every single referee has said to us, ‘For us, it’s great. We don’t have to be afraid of killing our careers.’

“They will have someone to fall back on and they love it."

Sooooo, referees are happy because they can absolve themselves of any responsibility & blame it on VAR?? WTF!

Why do we want football to become like other sports ffs.

So utterly depressing.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

who is IFAB...id never heard this mentioned before weekend but their wording on the handball is slightly different:

They wrote an explanation for the reason for changing the rule which states:

if the player gains position or control following a handball and gain a major advantage e.g. score or create a goal-scoring opportunity.

this is worded ever so slightly different but does make a difference

IFAB are a group of 8, four of whom are British, who decide on the new wording of laws. I think Elleray is the head of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Football_Association_Board

I can't find the quote you use (with google) but I'd always suggest using the FIFA law book, as it will be official, and not a web page which may take liberties with wording for clarity.

 

[kaz7]

so we scrap VAR ... future scenarios :

Liverpool v City ... Salah goes through on goal and does a ridiculous dive - fans all appeal, Lino isn't sure, Refs view it looks like he got clattered - Ref gives a penalty .

Corner kick, ref spots a shove by a city player on a Liverpool player and awards a penalty - fans bemused as to what for.

long ball over the top, Salah miles offside, plays on and scores a goal.

++

all the above was happening week in week out in games and the accusations of corruption and anger was felt - Are you really saying if we scrap VAR everyone will just be happy and can accept decisions like the one above ?

at least with VAR we have a fighting chance of implementing the correct decisions, however long it takes and it has a long way to go. I personally think they have bought in too much too soon, they should have implemented each law season by season , ie: for this season, VAR used just for offsides , next season for something else.

- one thing i agree with everyone, the spontaneous reaction when a goal goes in has been massively hampered, this is something i fully agree with. However, my honest opinion is i'd rather not be cheated/robbed by a ref/lino who has no clue on the incident and makes a wild guess.

I'm not sticking to my guns on this, i would favor scraping VAR if it's a total disaster, but i will give it a lot longer than 2 games.

That's alright for you to say,you are not a blue,the first 2 games we have been screwed over 3 times alreadyno other fucker has ,but you give it more than 2 games

 

[gocity]

so we scrap VAR ... future scenarios :

Liverpool v City ... Salah goes through on goal and does a ridiculous dive - fans all appeal, Lino isn't sure, Refs view it looks like he got clattered - Ref gives a penalty .

Corner kick, ref spots a shove by a city player on a Liverpool player and awards a penalty - fans bemused as to what for.

long ball over the top, Salah miles offside, plays on and scores a goal.

++

all the above was happening week in week out in games and the accusations of corruption and anger was felt - Are you really saying if we scrap VAR everyone will just be happy and can accept decisions like the one above ?

at least with VAR we have a fighting chance of implementing the correct decisions, however long it takes and it has a long way to go. I personally think they have bought in too much too soon, they should have implemented each law season by season , ie: for this season, VAR used just for offsides , next season for something else.

- one thing i agree with everyone, the spontaneous reaction when a goal goes in has been massively hampered, this is something i fully agree with. However, my honest opinion is i'd rather not be cheated/robbed by a ref/lino who has no clue on the incident and makes a wild guess.

I'm not sticking to my guns on this, i would favor scraping VAR if it's a total disaster, but i will give it a lot longer than 2 games.

Oliver didn't give us a nailed on penalty, never does so what has changed?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Football law-makers IFAB deliver worrying VAR verdict following Man City vs Spurs controversy

https://www.football.london/premier-league/football-law-makers-ifab-deliver-16778334

“The VAR concept is still at the beginning. We talked to other sports and everyone told us this is a 10-year project until people really understand how it works.”

Brud insists that Premier League match officials are fully behind the introduction of the technology despite the teething problems.

“Referees report back to us that this is something they have always wanted, for various reasons,” he added.

“Every single referee has said to us, ‘For us, it’s great. We don’t have to be afraid of killing our careers.’

“They will have someone to fall back on and they love it."

Sooooo, referees are happy because they can absolve themselves of any responsibility & blame it on VAR?? WTF!

That article doesn't indicate specifically that PL refs are those giving them feedback, although that it how it's written. If they were PL refs, then they're discussing CL or international matches, and quite possibly different VAR protocols.