Var debate 2019/20

qatar blue said:
Given the majority of people think that was a penalty, I’m giving Oliver the benefit of the doubt, that he would award it on review.
Vars job would be to play the video. Take your point tho mate
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Yes, I worded that a bit clumsily.
This version of VAR on fouls is worse than not having it at all.
 
Dribble said:
When questioned about it, the ref was pointing to his earpiece & shrugging his shoulders. I can only take that to mean, 'No one's pointed it out to me mate'.

There was an arm around Rodri's neck.

There was contact with his legs.

The opposition player fell the fuck on top of Rodri.

With VAR in operation, on what planet isn't that a fuckin penalty?
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I saw him with hand to ear.
I think we're broadly of the same opinion here - either VAR thinks it's not a penalty, or that it's not enough of a C&OE, or the on-field ref isn't changing his mind.

Without knowing, you'd assume that the last option is outside the guidelines, i.e. that the ref can't just decide to ignore VAR advice without a pitchside review.
That leaves "it's not a penalty", and "it's not hit this weird high bar level of certainty that it's a penalty".

All of that is worse than the ref just not giving it when VAR is not in operation.
 
hihosilva said:
I think at the end of the season the stats will show that we will have had the most goals chalked off, simply because we create far more chances than any other team.
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Indeed,i wonder if they pay such close attention to every goal scored in the prem,i think we are the dominant team and i feel we are going to get closer attentionThe handball law to give less goals and penalties has been made up by a chimp,everyone in the football world says it was a pen on rodders,salads dives will be given everytime and similar fouls will get given,if raz doing less gets a booking outside of the box it's clear they have told to ignore fouls like our one in the box,the whole thing is a complete farce
 
Here are the new handball rules taken from the FA website.

HANDLING THE BALL

It is an offence if a player:

  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:

    • scores in the opponents’ goal
    • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
  • scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

It is usually an offence if a player:

  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
    • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Why are some people in the media still saying the Jesus goal decision was correct? At what stage did Laporte gain possession or control the ball? A glancing blow while being dragged by an opposition player towards the ball can't possibly be handball under the new or the old rules. Is this just another fake narrative to cover up the truth? So what has really happened?
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Here are the new handball rules taken from the FA website.

HANDLING THE BALL

It is an offence if a player:
  • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
  • gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
    • scores in the opponents’ goal
    • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
  • scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

It is usually an offence if a player:

  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
    • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Why are some people in the media still saying the Jesus goal decision was correct? At what stage did Laporte gain possession or control the ball? A glancing blow while being dragged by an opposition player towards the ball can't possibly be handball under the new or the old rules. Is this just another fake narrative to cover up the truth? So what has really happened?
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because it is correct . he gains possession of the ball for the team when the ball strikes his arm. The ball falls to jesus who then goes on to score .

you're misunderstanding what gaining possession is and what control of the ball is . They are not the same things .
 
I am prepared to give VAR the opportunity to prove its consistency to me, as long as I see the diapers and rags getting the same calls made against them as we are then I am ok with it. It would be interesting to see how these decisions balance out over a season. At the moment we are 2 points down and Spurs 1 point up.
 
My head is spinning with all this VAR. Go over to off topic there's a thread, why does the earth spin. A little bit of light funny relief.
 
waspish said:
Did they ask himto tell the VAR men in the box to have look at it? Or was he the Referee of our game waiting for someone in a box to point out it was a penalty? If this is how Mike “the wanker” Riley want to run Var he wants Sacking the Bent C@NT.
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Apparently it's a yellow card offence for players to do the TV sign toward a ref. The game had restarted, & a couple of our players were speaking to the ref as they were back pedalling into position. All he did was point to his earpiece & shrug.

When it was discussed post match, it wasn't made clear if the ref had seen it, but decided it wasn't a foul, or if he'd missed it altogether, but no one at Stockley House mentioned anything to him.

There's also confusion if it's the remit of VAR to point out infringements in the penalty area, unless a goal is involved. However, Mike Dean hesitated when Mahrez was fouled against WHU. Was Dean waiting for VAR to confirm the decision?

PGMOL needs to clarify these crucial issues before it effects ManUre or Littlewoods. After all, we wouldn't want that would we?
 
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MillionMilesAway said:
I saw him with hand to ear.
I think we're broadly of the same opinion here - either VAR thinks it's not a penalty, or that it's not enough of a C&OE, or the on-field ref isn't changing his mind.

Without knowing, you'd assume that the last option is outside the guidelines, i.e. that the ref can't just decide to ignore VAR advice without a pitchside review.
That leaves "it's not a penalty", and "it's not hit this weird high bar level of certainty that it's a penalty".

All of that is worse than the ref just not giving it when VAR is not in operation.
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And that's another weird thing I've noticed. I've not watched every game this season, but I can't recall a ref going to the pitch-side screen for a review. In MLS, this happens all the time.

Are PGMOL trying their best to stay out of certain decisions to speed up the game, which therefore means fouls like the one on Rodri get missed?
 
Bunchofdickovs said:
because it is correct . he gains possession of the ball for the team when the ball strikes his arm. The ball falls to jesus who then goes on to score .

you're misunderstanding what gaining possession is and what control of the ball is . They are not the same things .
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It’s good that you’ve joined the forum just to let us all know we should stop moaning about getting shafted.
Very considerate of you.
 
Pablo1 said:
It’s good that you’ve joined the forum just to let us all know we should stop moaning about getting shafted.
Very considerate of you.
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depends upon your opinion of shafted . Also i didn't say stop moaning but rather just explained why the handball is correct . I can see why the penalty wasn't given by VAR but still believe its a penalty .
 
Bunchofdickovs said:
depends upon your opinion of shafted . Also i didn't say stop moaning but rather just explained why the handball is correct . I can see why the penalty wasn't given by VAR but still believe its a penalty .
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With the Var rules regarding handballs in the box yep it was the right Decision what Im more worried about is those bent Fcuks in var box not noticing the concrete penalty on Rodri?! Hopefully from now on those incidents will be given as pens.
 
Dribble said:
And that's another weird thing I've noticed. I've not watched every game this season, but I can't recall a ref going to the pitch-side screen for a review. In MLS, this happens all the time.

Are PGMOL trying their best to stay out of certain decisions to speed up the game, which therefore means fouls like the one on Rodri get missed?
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PL instruction is to not disrupt the match with pitchside reviews. I posted these excerpts on Saturday:

BBC 2 weeks ago:
"VAR automatically checks all key incidents during a game, but the video officials' role will be informed by their on-field colleague, who describes to them what they have seen and why they have reached their conclusion.
It is only if the replays show a different version of events to that described by the on-field referee that the VAR team will step in. The on-field referee will then decide whether to accept and act on the VAR official's view of the incident. This may involve the use of the pitch-side monitor, although the Premier League says this will be used sparingly, for incidents either not seen by the on-field ref or for those outside of their expected range."

Telegraph:
How does this work in practice?
  • The VAR speaks to the on-field referee through an earpiece, or vica versa, and the referee will put his hand up to pause play and inform the players a decision is being reviewed.
  • VAR reviews the video footage of the incident and advises whether or not action should be taken. If there has been an error, the referee will draw a rectangle with his arms to replicate a TV a screen to change his original decision.
  • In the case of more subjective incidents, the VAR will instruct the referee to watch a replay on a pitchside screen. This is known as an on-pitch review.
Firstly, referees have been told to avoid on-pitch reviews at the pitch-side screen whenever possible. These types of review are known to cause the longest delays. Instead, on-pitch referees have been told to trust the advice they are given by VAR.
There has also been a pledge from former referee Neil Swarbrick, the man leading VAR's implementation in the Premier League, to stick to a'higher threshold' for reviewing decisions and only intervene in the case of 'clear and obvious' errors (does not apply to offsides, remember).

goal.com
Premier League referees have been encouraged to limit the time they use the video review area at the side of the pitch, which has been identified as a notable source of delay in VAR calls.
Instead of reviewing every call flagged by the VAR assistants, it is hoped that match officials will trust the advice given to them by their colleagues. However, the referee can still take time to review if necessary.
Relating to that, the Premier League has taken steps to keep the supporters and those watching the game on TV informed about the process and rationale of decisions.
 
Dribble said:
Apparently it's a yellow card offence for players to do the TV sign toward a ref. The game had restarted, & a couple of our players were speaking to the ref as they were back pedalling into position. All he did was point to his earpiece & shrug.

When it was discussed post match, it wasn't made clear if the ref had seen it, but decided it wasn't a foul, or if he'd missed it altogether, but no one at Stockley House mentioned anything to him.

There's also confusion if it's the remit of VAR to point out infringements in the penalty area, unless a goal is involved. However, Mike Dean hesitated when Mahrez was fouled against WHU. Was Dean waiting for VAR to confirm the decision?

PGMOL needs to clarify these crucial issues before it effects ManUre or Littlewoods. After all, we wouldn't want that would we?
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I do think Dean was checking with the linesman for the Mahrez foul. It wouldn't surprise me if refs have been told to take that half second extra, as VAR will kick in anyway.
 
waspish said:
With the Var rules regarding handballs in the box yep it was the right Decision what Im more worried about is those bent Fcuks in var box not noticing the concrete penalty on Rodri?! Hopefully from now on those incidents will be given as pens.
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I don't believe they can overrule the ref on a subjective call like a potential foul . IF the ref is adamant that he saw the incident and he's happy with his call then VAR aren't there to overrule him.

In the world cup those incidents were often checked on the pitch side tv but the premier league or ref union don't want every decision to take 5 minutes to review so we end up playing for 3 hours .

Every supporter i have spoken with from different clubs agree it was a pen. Let's hope it's a lesson learned .
 
Colin Bell (genuine name) said:
Just watched Ref watch on sky sports with that **** Dermot Gallagher. Said the rule was brought in as a result of 3 incidents last season Boly for wolves against us, Aguero against Arsenal and Nathan Redmond.

I don't recall the Nathan Redmond one but I am assuming that it was similar to Boly and Aguero in that as a direct consequence of the handball a goal was scored.

The Law 12 display that Sky were showing stated
~ the following handball situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick
~ the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm

Quite simple really because that is exactly what happened last season with Boly, Aguero and Redmond, the ball went into the goal after touching their hand/arm.

So why are they choosing to ignore the fact that another phase of play occurred when Jesus had to play the ball in to space before shooting past 4 defenders, David Silva and the Goalie.

Then Gallagher says I don't understand where the confusion is....prick!

Then he says that he initially thought the Rodri penalty wasn't a penalty and that the ref obviously thought the same and if VAR thought differently they are not allowed to over rule the ref in subjective decisions.
It was highlighted to him that Michael Oliver wasn't even watching the incident so there must be clear and obvious error. Prick said the more he saw the incident the more he was leaning towards agreeing that it was a penalty but still refused to say that it was.

What fecking chance do decent football fans have when those implementing the rules can't even admit to getting it wrong when the evidence is staring them in the face.

I never get angry but I was furious on Saturday evening and I'm furious again.
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I cannot see how anyone would say it wasnt a penalty for Rodri

I do agree with the handball call however...unfortunately.
 
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