Var debate 2019/20

[simon23]

Thought in the West Ham game Mike Dean wasn't going to give the penalty, then got someone in his ear saying you'll look such a fucking idiot if you don't give that....

he certainly hesitated before he gave the penalty thats for sure

 

[Florida Blue]

Premier League‏Verified account @premierleague


"Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental."


That is what the Premier league Twitter posted, so are they ignoring the specific detailed guidelines by IFAB regarding handball?

On the official Premier League site it says the same thing....

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

BUT at the bottom they direct you to read the new IFAB guidelines

See: IFAB handball law changes in full

Sooo, what the hell does that mean? Do the Premier league have different rules than IFAB? ie Any accidental handball scored or created is handball or is it lazily written and the specific guidelines of possession and control of the ball still stand that IFAB wrote and the Premier league gives a link to IFAB to read the detailed guidelines?

This HAS to be cleared up as it's night and day difference for what could be a goal or not a goal. Like what happened to us v Spurs.

 

[kippaxwarrior]

Why does that say United?

Took the screenshot during Monday Night Football

 

[Manchester1894]

So we created 40% of ALL the chances across 20 league games? We’re good but even we’re not that fucking good!!!

Get that fucking tin foil hat back and get yourself a calculator before coming up with statistics that are complete and utter bollocks.

Have I missed something here? I don't recall saying 40%, why have you made that up and now throwing a few expletives at me??

 

[Bluemanc100]

They have already made their minds up who they want this year as their ‘darlings’.
There won’t be anything like the scrutiny we have. You all know who we mean. If it has to be won by ‘massaging the game’ is it really worth it??
We are our own worst enemy at the moment. If we had put away the sitters we had created, we probably wouldn’t even be talking about this.

Of course we would... we'd have won the game but still been robbed of a great moment

 

[MadchesterCity]

This is my first input to this forum.

i wish to contribute to the VAR thread as a neutral.

Over the weekend I felt aggrieved for City fans having seen the Lamela/Rodrigo penalty claim incident.

I was surprised that the VAR official did not intervene, but thought there may have been a good reason why.

I thought nothing more of it until I heard this morning's FIve Live interview with Neil Swarbrick, the Premier League VAR lead.

A lot of what Neil said re VAR general implementation principles kinda made sense, BUT his comments re why VAR did not intervene in respect of the aforementioned penalty claim were inexcusable. As said in part by other forum members Swarbrick claimed that the evidence showed that if Rodrigo had been held around the neck or upper body by Lamela he should have fallen backwards, and not forward as was the case. Neil Swarbrick went on to claim that the VAR officials did review the incident, but took no further action because when the incident was reviewed at normal speed then it was clear that Rodrigo (if he had been interfered with) should have fallen backward. He also said that the slow motion replay looked a bit suspect, but it is the full speed replay that had to be considered by the VAR official.

The above explanation did not sit well with my recollection of the incident and so I decided to watch the incident again at full speed on MOTD via Catch Up TV. Having done so it shows that Swarbrick's explanation is frankly utter tosh. If anything Rodrigo was pushed to the ground by Lamela and it would have been physically impossible for Rodri to have fallen backwards. Moreover, given that (as Swarbrick claims) the incident was reviewed I find it nigh on impossible to believe that any VAR official could have reached such a bizarre decision within the time that was available to them to review the incident 'live' on Saturday and revert back to the match referee, i.e. within a timeframe of less than 20 seconds.

I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories etc, but I as a neutral genuinely feel that Swarbrick's above explanation should be formally challenged because it would appear that the vast majority of football lovers and pundits (e.g MOTD's Lineker, Shearer and Murphy) all feel that it was a penalty. Neil Swarbrick and the PL hierarchy should be held to account.

Welcome to the board, you talk a lot of sense

 

[sir baconface]

Imagine 93:00 with VAR.

On second thoughts, don’t.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Imagine 93:00 with VAR.

On second thoughts, don’t.

Probably wouldn't have happened as I reckon they would have sent off Tevez as well as Barton earlier in the game if there was VAR.

 

[Cheer Up Peter Reid]

Premier League‏Verified account @premierleague


"Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental."


That is what the Premier league Twitter posted, so are they ignoring the specific detailed guidelines by IFAB regarding handball?

On the official Premier League site it says the same thing....

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

BUT at the bottom they direct you to read the new IFAB guidelines

See: IFAB handball law changes in full

Sooo, what the hell does that mean? Do the Premier league have different rules than IFAB? ie Any accidental handball scored or created is handball or is it lazily written and the specific guidelines of possession and control of the ball still stand that IFAB wrote and the Premier league gives a link to IFAB to read the detailed guidelines?

This HAS to be cleared up as it's night and day difference for what could be a goal or not a goal. Like what happened to us v Spurs.

I agree there is scope for ambiguity. The first line on the page on the Premier League Website says:-

The International Football Association Board (IFAB) has updated the Laws of the Game for the 2019/20 season.

And at the bottom the link says:-

See: IFAB handball law changes in full

So I would suggest that the rest of the page on the Premier League website is just a summary of the new IFAB rules which has been badly written and the real rules that should be referenced are the ones on the IFAB site.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

You really don't get the game if you look at that and don't see a player in the air before he's touched.

You’re right...”I don’t ‘get’ the game!”
HAHAHAHA!!!

Defender never even questioned the call. Not a peep. No-one did! LITERALLY NO-ONE!!!

Stuck his leg out, Pogba was tripped by it. The end. I hate them as much as the next guy, but I’m not going to warp reality to try to see that as a dive! Get ahold of yourself.

It was a penalty...all day every day.

 

[kaz7]

David Elleray is Technical Director of IFAB He is primarily responsible for this nonsense Handball was changed to suit VAR allowing microscopic examination of a goal, this will lead to more goals, already 2 this season, being disallowed
The referees love VAR it’s provide a good income stream for retirement Neil Swarbrick Head of Implementation of VAR in the Premier League use to work at BAe Systems Warton bet he earns considerable more now

Thanks,Swarbrick was a terrible ref,it's beyond me how he got the gig,i'm not surprised he called what happened to rodders a dive,it's pointles him speaking each week as he will never say that an onfield ref got in wrong or that the handball rule benefits the defending team or they should look at the tech again,he might as well say nothing,i think we ned a song for him and david

 

[sir baconface]

Personally, I’m more sanguine about VAR than about some of the rule changes/interpretation.

The Rodri incident was patently a mistake but - like @Manchester1894 who is getting pelters - I’m prepared to give VAR more than a couple of matches before deciding it’s a backward step.

What pisses me off more is chalking off a goal because someone’s a finger-nail offside. As for Laporte’s “infringement” I still don’t see how that should be classed as handball. He didn’t create a goal-scoring opportunity FFS. Yes, one arose but it wasn’t teed up by him.

Time will tell.

 

[DT King of all Geordies]

Exactly, the clear signal from Oliver was that he hadn't seen anything and he hadn't been alerted to anything either. I wish the club would call out the clear contradiction from Swarbrick (who was a shit ref, BTW!).

Swarbrick said, I think, that there was contact but Oliver thought that Rodri fell forwards rather than backwards and that Rodri felt the contact and went down. Swarbrick said that the refs had been looking at contact. I think he meant that although there was contact there was not enough contact to warrant a fall. I suppose the worry is that another ref may not have the same understanding of body mechanics as Oliver and give a foul!

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Premier League‏Verified account @premierleague


"Any goal scored or created with the use of the hand or arm will be disallowed this season even if it is accidental."


That is what the Premier league Twitter posted, so are they ignoring the specific detailed guidelines by IFAB regarding handball?

On the official Premier League site it says the same thing....

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

BUT at the bottom they direct you to read the new IFAB guidelines

See: IFAB handball law changes in full

Sooo, what the hell does that mean? Do the Premier league have different rules than IFAB? ie Any accidental handball scored or created is handball or is it lazily written and the specific guidelines of possession and control of the ball still stand that IFAB wrote and the Premier league gives a link to IFAB to read the detailed guidelines?

This HAS to be cleared up as it's night and day difference for what could be a goal or not a goal. Like what happened to us v Spurs.

This is a bit of a bombshell because it shows different advice from the Premier League compared to the IFAB rules. So it is clear that the claims made by Swarbrick that the VAR officials here are following IFAB guidelines is false. It looks like the FA and the referees have misinterpreted the IFAB guidelines and are applying the rules here differently to everywhere else with regard to handball. It's a good story for the media. Can anyone on here tweet this out?

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

I agree there is scope for ambiguity. The first line on the page on the Premier League Website says:-

The International Football Association Board (IFAB) has updated the Laws of the Game for the 2019/20 season.

And at the bottom the link says:-

See: IFAB handball law changes in full

So I would suggest that the rest of the page on the Premier League website is just a summary of the new IFAB rules which has been badly written and the real rules that should be referenced are the ones on the IFAB site.

But it looks like the VAR team have followed the FA's wrong interpretation of the proper IFAB rules and that's why the Jesus goal was disallowed.

 

[kaz7]

This is a bit of a bombshell because it shows different advice from the Premier League compared to the IFAB rules. So it is clear that the claims made by Swarbrick that the VAR officials here are following IFAB guidelines is false. It looks like the FA and the referees have misinterpreted the IFAB guidelines and are applying the rules here differently to everywhere else with regard to handball. It's a good story for the media. Can anyone on here tweet this out?

Send it to martin samuels,he doesn't toe the journo line,also send it to PIGMOL and the premier league,send it to the club as well,no reason why we can't ask for clarification as to which rules they are following,i susect they have just made it up

 

[ctid1894]

Have I missed something here? I don't recall saying 40%, why have you made that up and now throwing a few expletives at me??

You didn’t, you tried justifying the reason(s) why we’re involved in more VAR incidents than anyone else. The statistics are that we have been involved in 40% (2 in 5, thats completely ignoring the “incorrect” Rodri penalty incident). Hence the question asking if we’d been involved of 40% of ALL chances created, we haven’t, I’ve already looked. That’s the only statistic that could have backed up your theory/reasoning.

So you’re theory/reasoning is complete and utter bollocks, your tin foil hat can duly sit right back where it belongs on top of your fucking head.

The expletives weren’t aimed at you at all so you can stop with that bullshit as well, they were purely to emphasis (just like in this post). Thank you and good day sir.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Send it to martin samuels,he doesn't toe the journo line,also send it to PIGMOL and the premier league,send it to the club as well,no reason why we can't ask for clarification as to which rules they are following,i susect they have just made it up

Can't find an up to date email for Samuels but Twitter would be better.

 

[kaz7]

Can't find an up to date email for Samuels but Twitter would be better.

He is not on twitter i don't think,have to send it to his paper i guess

 

[BufordUSABlue]

I don’t believe this, they’ve reviewed our 2nd goal and chalked that off now.... So we actually lost 2-1 on Saturday FFS!!

Furthermore, They’re also looking at the upcoming Bournemouth game on Sunday now, as they believe that our first 2 goals may be offside, handball, a foul and basically just unfair! So they have already sent off KDB and issued yellows to the remaining 10 on the field, plus everyone on the bench, along with one guy in the local pub who admitted he was from Burnage!