Var debate 2019/20

[SebastianBlue]

If anyone needs a reminder of the man in charge of the implementation of VAR.

 

[SWP's back]

It’s very simple, whatever happens just make the “correct” decision.

As fans 9/10 we can tell within seconds whether a decision is correct or not. We all make mistakes and the odd one we could all accept when there’s different angles etc. I’ve personally got an apology to make to @SWP's back with regards to the Martial incident last weekend, I saw a clip from the Scum’s game from behind the goal and it’s clear he was pulled again in the box. I was fucking adamant that the foul stopped outside the box and it does IMO, however the defender pulls him again inside the box from a different angle.

However, the stuff like Grealish, Silva and Rodri’s penalties are just laughable. The Tielmann’s red card yesterday, we all know as fans that’s a leg breaker and a straight red whether it’s intention or not, it’s reckless and dangerous. The Laporte handball is clearly bollocks, he didn’t have a clue where that had gone and there’s no proof it even hit his hand/arm unlike yesterday’s decision at Newcastle.

No worries mate and no need to apologise although I appreciate the sentiment.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

But he hadn’t fallen over and was still in control of the ball at that point.

Come on mate, you know the ref blew after he went over in the box.

I’m just trying to portray what they suggested on MOTD last night. They said that if the whistle was blown for the foul being outside of the box, then VAR can’t get involved, meaning that the mistake was by the on field referee and outside the remit of VAR.

I obviously think Villa have been robbed and the goal should have stood.

 

[Ban-jani]

I’ve just seen the Villa one.

That’s even worse than the ones we’ve had.

I’m giving up, football has gone.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I’ve just seen the Villa one.

That’s even worse than the ones we’ve had.

I’m giving up, football has gone.

Watch the Newcastle goal.

 

[Fabled mabel]

If anyone needs a reminder of the man in charge of the implementation of VAR.

I am sure there are many tactical fouls in there but of course they were not invented until we did last year.

One thing, it goes to show that Gary Neville is an absolute cnut then and now and a good illustration how the rags shared the fouls to avoid cards.

History has been rewritten but Numquam oblitus by me.

 

[Rochdale Blue]

Most seasons.

And it’s not the laws that ever change, it’s their interpretation and implementation.

Can you show me any of those interpretations that changed a clubs final position in the course of that season, because their messing around can't fail to affect teams in this one.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I’ve just seen the Villa one.

That’s even worse than the ones we’ve had.

I’m giving up, football has gone.

To be fair though, VAR had absolutely nothing to do with that. That was all down to Kevin Friend being a shit referee...

 

[SWP's back]

Can you show me any of those interpretations that changed a clubs final position in the course of that season, because their messing around can't fail to affect teams in this one.

No I’ve no idea if any final positions changed because of it. I know we lost two points at Stoke a couple of seasons back when Sterling gave away a penalty when Mike Dean gave a penalty for Sterling not looking at the ball.

 

[SebastianBlue]

To be fair though, VAR had absolutely nothing to do with that. That was all down to Kevin Friend being a shit referee...

VAR (which encompasses technology, policies, practices, and people operating) has everything to do with it, unless it is being argued that VAR isn’t meant to correct poor refereeing, human error, and/or imperfect immediate access to information.

In which case, what is VAR meant to do, exactly?

If there are VAR use policies/practices in place that arbitrarily prevent VAR from reviewing a specific incident (in this case based on when a referee supposedly blew the whistle, which has actually been called in to question in the context of the explanation of VAR’s non-involvement, anyway), then it is still a VAR issue, in addition to an incompetent referee issue.

 

[Rochdale Blue]

No I’ve no idea if any final positions changed because of it. I know we lost two points at Stoke a couple of seasons back when Sterling gave away a penalty when Mike Dean gave a penalty for Sterling not looking at the ball.

And the touchdown Crouch scored when it seems nfl rules were implemented for one game.

 

[creditunionhero]

I thought they released a statement following the spurs game that they would not be revising any interpretation but would listen to constructive comments from all interested parties at their meeting in mid September......

By "all interested parties" they have already changed their interpretation, just look at the Newcastle handball goal they allowed to stand!!!!!!!

The meeting in September will be to investigate how they can scrutinise are games to get the result they want.

 

[Neville Kneville]

VAR (which encompasses technology, policies, practices, and people operating) has everything to do with it, unless it is being argued that VAR isn’t meant to correct poor refereeing, human error, and/or imperfect immediate access to information.

In which case, what is VAR meant to do, exactly?

If there are VAR use policies/practices in place that arbitrarily prevent VAR from reviewing a specific incident (in this case based on when a referee supposedly blew the whistle, which has actually been called in to question in the context of the explanation of VAR’s non-involvement, anyway), then it is still a VAR issue, in addition to an incompetent referee issue.

V.a.r. is, at the moment, purely a tool to try & fuck up the enjoyment of football.

Pretty much nothing enforced by it, including the men's & women's world cups, has brought anything but
disagreement & to many, disappointment.

Most of its decisions are either shit, unfair or non existent. Red card instances are not acted upon, rules are not observed, nothing it does has any credibility, apart from goal line decisions.

It exists, purely to give excuses for its existence & serves no purpose in aiding football decision making.

It's as useful as hemorroids.

 

[Centurions]

VAR (which encompasses technology, policies, practices, and people operating) has everything to do with it, unless it is being argued that VAR isn’t meant to correct poor refereeing, human error, and/or imperfect immediate access to information.

In which case, what is VAR meant to do, exactly?

If there are VAR use policies/practices in place that arbitrarily prevent VAR from reviewing a specific incident (in this case based on when a referee supposedly blew the whistle, which has actually been called in to question in the context of the explanation of VAR’s non-involvement, anyway), then it is still a VAR issue, in addition to an incompetent referee issue.

Unless I've missed something farther back, the ref had blown up before they scored so I don't think VAR can interfere there, it was a terrible decision by the ref but in this case you can't lay the blame at VAR's door.

 

[Damanino]

Where are the official comments from PL regarding incidents, are there any usually btw?

Wonder what they say about the Newcastle goal where the ball clearly hit a Newcastle players hand just before the shot was made. I wonder whats the explanation as they are between a rock and a hard place with this one, they have to change the rule from the City-Spurs game or they have to admint that VAR ref missed it even with the replays which is criminal imo.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Unless I've missed something farther back, the ref had blown up before they scored so I don't think VAR can interfere there, it was a terrible decision by the ref but in this case you can't lay the blame at VAR's door.

My post was in response to that very statement, mate.

The “can’t review” is still a VAR issue. It is a system, which includes its [non]interaction with refereeing on the pitch. They are not separate and the current implementation of VAR can very much take some of the blame.

Also there are some pundits saying he didn’t actually blow the whistle at the time of the “dive”, which would render that arbitrary use policy irrelevant as it would have then been a “clear and obvious error” by the referee (as there is a suggestion he blew before the infringement even took place and should not have blown at all per current VAR policies).

All of that is not important, though, as the point still stands that VAR is not independent of its [non]interaction with the referees on the pitch. It is an integrated system.

 

[davek1808]

Where are the official comments from PL regarding incidents, are there any usually btw?

Wonder what they say about the Newcastle goal where the ball clearly hit a Newcastle players hand just before the shot was made. I wonder whats the explanation as they are between a rock and a hard place with this one, they have to change the rule from the City-Spurs game or they have to admint that VAR ref missed it even with the replays which is criminal imo.

It's becoming a varce, the bent fuckers are making it up as they go along.

 

[SebastianBlue]

V.a.r. is, at the moment, purely a tool to try & fuck up the enjoyment of football.

Pretty much nothing enforced by it, including the men's & women's world cups, has brought anything but
disagreement & to many, disappointment.

Most of its decisions are either shit, unfair or non existent. Red card instances are not acted upon, rules are not observed, nothing it does has any credibility, apart from goal line decisions.

It exists, purely to give excuses for its existence & serves no purpose in aiding football decision making.

It's as useful as hemorroids.

I think haemorrhoids are actually more useful, as at least they let you know when the **** is about to come.

 

[creditunionhero]

We don’t know that. He could have blown for the five from the push in the back, however perverse that sounds.

If you watch MOTD they show that the ref DID NOT

The thing is its new and it was always going to adapt to criticism.

Our disallowed goal v spurs was strongly and publicly criticised, and rightly so, and as many predicted they'll have all since discussed it, and come to a consensus that that is not what VAR should be ruling out (it shouldn't be being used to rule out goals, unless they are obviously illegal).

Our Rodri penalty wasn't considered "clear and obvious" (very debatable in most opinions), but it was only one at the time, but this week has seen several more poor decisions, a couple of "should have been" penalties, also now being scrutinised publicly (the Tierney one is frankly ridiculous), so further discussion must surely be had that VAR has to be seen to be doing something to correct obviously wrong decisions, so it will adapt again.

Also the idiot doing the Villa game, who booked Grealish and disallowed the goal, should be put on re-training, as should the idiot in the VAR booth for not changing it or at least getting the referee to view it again, and correct his obvious error, its neither a foul or a dive, its a pass to a colleague, who subsequently scores a perfectly good goal (see "it shouldn't be being used to rule out goals, unless they are obviously illegal" above).

Its all fine and well saying it should be scrapped, but that isn't happening 4 games into the season, its here and its staying, so with more data available each week (ie wrong decisions), its surely better for better interpretations to be brought in than leave it as it is ?

We can micro analyse every decision we don't like, but its here and its staying, so lets get it working the best way possible for the good of everybody.

Its not new, its been tested (we are told) for months. It does not need to adapt to criticism. It merely needs to apply what 99.99999999% of the rest of us can already see.

The people using it are clearly not fit for purpose, it is totally unacceptable that we are being used as Guinee pigs and points are being denied to clubs that could already be costing them a title or others relegation to a lower league.

 

[SWP's back]

Unless I've missed something farther back, the ref had blown up before they scored so I don't think VAR can interfere there, it was a terrible decision by the ref but in this case you can't lay the blame at VAR's door.

Var could have given a penalty. That would have been far more sensible that agreeing with a disallowed goal and booking for simulation.