Another new Brexit thread

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blueinsa said:
See.....deal will be agreed, each side will claim victory and that they got what they wanted and the world will move on.

Happy days ;-)
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Yep - said that often - it will be dressed up so that both sides can seem 'not to have conceded / been successful'

It really has been obvious to a good few of us - although the surrender act might still undermine the UK
 
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"We need vigilance, determination and patience to climb the Brexit mountain"
M. Barnier - just now. 20 days and counting.
 
jay_mcfc said:
And we'd have a situation where we'd have been better off just staying ala May's deal.
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bluethrunthru said:
And we'd have a situation where we'd have been better off just staying in?
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Well - given that both these outcomes are far worse for the UK's longer term future than No-Deal - and we should want a deal before a No-Deal

These views are, IMO, clearly wrong
 
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George Hannah said:
The SNP wake starts on October 31st if a genuine Brexit happens. Independence would simply never be a rational option if the UK is outside the EU, it would mean they are finished along with Plaid - both flying straight to earth. Clearly the situation in Northern Ireland is different.
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Yep - the chance of Scotland leaving the UK if the UK has genuinely left the EU first drops to 'very limited'

And I mean that as determined in a Scotland only Indyref2 - they will clearly decide to 'Remain' once the future arrangements are set in front of them

The UK will have learned a few things in handling the sequencing and managing of negotiations

If the UK does genuinely leave the EU then the SNP will likely be an increasingly fading force - quite quickly
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Yeah - even with that surrender act being there to give the EU confidence that the UK will be undermined from within - it seems that just the sheer potential for No-Deal to happen might have been too much for the EU and Ireland

Just think what could have happened if Westminster was not dominated by sycophants?
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boggles my mind that you can read that this change in tone came from any threat of a no deal. It came from Boris (and credit to him for that) going back to what has always been on the table that his brexit hardcores wpuld not (and still might not) contemplate. And so soon after his 'take it or leave it' offer, which they left.
 
George Hannah said:
See below.
If Brexit happens the EU will be severely weakened, possibly terminally. They will be looking to lose poor nations not acquire them, both Scotland and Wales will soon be counting their current blessings. As prospective small member states, separated from the EU by their primary market, their economies could never survive unsupported in the trading environment that would follow our departure. Precedents just don't come into it, economic interest will drive all the decisions and England holds all the cards in that context. As I said, the NI is different but this deal gives the Unionists their best chance of remaining in the UK.
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Do you know - it is really not difficult to grasp is it

There is a significant affliction of being '...hard of being willing to understand..' on here sometimes
 
aguero93:20 said:
The EU can easily survive losing the UK, most states are net contributors right now. Scotland may not be able to survive without the EU market if it's as delicate as you think. Yet again mate you're going from A to Z(-14×32) without finding any reliable alphabet. Rhetoric without substance.
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Yeah - of course

Right from the off - they have been so keen to get shot of the UK....-;)
 
It would be the ultimate irony for me in having to thank that **** Johnson and that twat Farage for giving me the hope that there could at last be a true Socialist future for our nation.

Unless the deal they make is a snidey one that hinders any move towards Socialism.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Yeah - of course

Right from the off - they have been so keen to get shot of the UK....-;)
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Just this morning we heard Macron with a last ditch revoke plea.

The French and German electorates will not be picking the tabs up for the vanity project for much longer.

Thankfully neither will we.
 
Being sick-to-death of brexit is no reason roll over, even on the meaningless pages of social media. These days are a bit similar to 1939, so-called phoney-war , before bombs replaced propaganda pamphlets. Lots of chest-beating and sabre-rattling, dire threats and posters of laughing crowds waving union jacks. Civilian morale was high, no casualties , food shortages seen as a bit of novelty. Brexits have a similar outlook today, 'soon be over', 'nowt to fret about, we'll piss this, glory beckons, This is England ffs.'
As churchill should have said 'You'll fight them on the beaches...' Like the brexit high command, he knew he was never going to suffer personally, no matter what, though his wealth, unlike the brexit paymaster's was not set to soar. Going it alone would be a huge challenge for a healthy united country where the wealth is shared evenly, for the polar opposite, the UK, it is quite simply, a self-inflicted catastrophe for the vast majority. Brexit and die, for some individuals, literally, for the country figuratively, as a democratic relevance on the world stage . Amen
 
Rascal said:
It would be the ultimate irony for me in having to thank that **** Johnson and that twat Farage for giving me the hope that there could at last be a true Socialist future for our nation.

Unless the deal they make is a snidey one that hinders any move towards Socialism.
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You're even more bonkers than I possibly could have imagined if you believe for 1 nano-second that us leaving will result in any possibility of us moving further to the left. The more socialist-entrenched EU is/was your last hope of preventing the continuing, incessant progression away from left leaning politics in this country.

We're getting richer, most people - most voters - are getting better and better off by the decade. And as we do, the donkey jacket vote declines inexorably further.

There really are none so blind as those who will not see. Out from under the restrictive petticoat of EU socialist tendency, you can look forward to years of Tory rule, and if they get in, Labour centre ground rule. Socialism is dead as a dodo already, but deader than disco once we leave.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Yep - the chance of Scotland leaving the UK if the UK has genuinely left the EU first drops to 'very lilmited'

And I mean that as determined in a Scotland only Indyref2 - they will clearly decide to 'Remain' once the future arrangements are set in front of them

The UK will have learned a few things in handling the sequencing and managing of negotiations

If the UK does genuinely leave the EU then the SNP will likely be an increasingly fading force - quite quickly
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Boggles my mind how you and G.H come to this conclusion. it really does.
 
Coatigan said:
boggles my mind that you can read that this change in tone came from any threat of a no deal. It came from Boris (and credit to him for that) going back to what has always been on the table that his brexit hardcores wpuld not (and still might not) contemplate. And so soon after his 'take it or leave it' offer, which they left.
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I think we are all guessing but this is also how I see it. BoJo will not get no deal on 31st October, he will not get his idea of a deal on 31st October (a non starter) so where does he go. Softish brexit or into an extension as a failure.

I'm still to be convinced that it can be done. MPs not only dislike boris they dont trust him. Getting this through is difficult becuase of that - he lies consistantly - many MPs might just prefer to make him fail and go into an extension.

I think this is a kite flying exercise - put out some feelers for a soft brexit outcome, see how people react and then they will go away and think what is the least worst option.
 
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