Another new Brexit thread

[Chippy_boy]

Just ordinary rioters?

Vic, stop being a tit.

I made the comment that a 2nd referendum would be a disaster that would solve nothing and would IMO result in rioting in the streets. If you want to go off down some bizarre rat hole about the why's and wherefores of what sort of rioters might or might be acceptable, be my guest. But I am not following you down there.

 

[blueinsa]

Untrue. In August I said-

“The only chance is an Irish Sea border but the DUP will say no”.

The reason remainers on here weren’t talking about this option en masse, was because it had already been dismissed in 2016.

All Johnson has done has added to the WA something already on offer, remainers have been proven right if anything.

August.

The best part of the previous 3 years Ban?

 

[blueinsa]

remainers have been proven right if anything.

So long as it gets voted through tomorrow you can think what you like, it matters not one jot but we wont agree on that, ever.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Brexit bingo tomorrow

Expect labour mp after labour mp to stand up and say

I respect the result of the referendum but [ insert any excuse you like].....

And the snp to say

The people of Scotland will not be dragged out of the eu against its will ......

And

Remember how horrified they were about no deal and stopping no deal and they were just concerned with preventing a no deal catastrophic brexit.

Tomorrow it will be

Can I ask the prime minister if he is so confident that his deal is a good deal that he will put it the British people in a people’s vote.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What i did find amusing was the fact that the total was 101% !
Not the best editorial checking.

Small point, but there's nothing wrong with 101%. For example, 34.5% vote X and 65.5% vote Y, when rounded to whole numbers, results in 35% and 66% = 101%.

It would be incorrect to portray X as 34% and Y as 66%, simply to make the numbers add up to 100. Likewise 35 and 65 would also be incorrect. 34 and 65 would be "fair" but result in 99, so wouldn't exactly fix it for you.

 

[Rascal]

Fail by 20 to 40 is my prediction.

A tie, then it comes down to Mr Speaker to decide.

Imagine the pressure of that, one man in a democracy deciding the future of the nation.

 

[BobKowalski]

Like him or not and most on here fucking hate him and brexit for that matter, politically he has out manoeuvred the lot of them in Westminster.

The only deal on the table he got rid of and brought a new one.

Proved he wasn't all about no deal.

The backstop that couldn't be got rid of he got rid of.

DUP aside he looks to have got the ERG, most of the Tory rebels and plenty from labour if the reports are true to back it come tomorrow.

Last but not least, he has got Dublin and Brussels and the 27 to agree to it and we have a chance to finally move onto the next stage.

He has played them all like a cheap fiddle imo when in any other times and with any other opposition he would have been toast, such is the sheer fucking crapness of Labour under Corbyn and that front bench.

A remarkable achievement. Selling NI to the EU and repackaging the temporary backstop into a permanent ‘frontstop’ :)

I said yesterday where Johnson did well and that was in the face to face with Varadkar. May couldn’t have struck that agreement with Varadkar as she was hopeless at interpersonal politics or indeed anything that involved connecting with people. She also couldn’t have struck the deal as it meant weakening the Union.

Now whether the deal struck to avoid asking for an extension and a no deal scenario was a wise one is debatable but in truth I don’t think Johnson or the country had anywhere else to go other than just calling the whole thing off and that wasn’t going to happen.

The problem we now face as a Union is that we have accepted the precedent of an internal customs border and that precedent is going to be weaponised in our internal debate about the future of our Union. And if that internal customs border is to work with NI then we are going to have to remain closely aligned with the EU as divergence creates friction within our own single market. And if we are not diverging from the EU but remain excluded from the security and foreign policy making of the EU nor have any voice in the direction and running of the EU then what has been the point of Brexit other than to provide a template for countries within our own Union to absent it?

 

[Blue Hefner]

I could.

I could spend weeks telling you but you know what, you would say nope, dont agree so what is the point?

The ref has been done, the result in and the government has done what you all said was impossible in getting the backstop removed, negotiations reopened and a new deal agreed that looks like it might get through.

All with Parliament holding a gun to his head for the past god knows how many weeks.

All the chips went on him coming back with no deal and the Benn act being put into action and he has pulled your rug out from under you.

He’s not pulled the rug from under me, I’ll probably be alright either way

My point was in regards to why MPs would/should vote for it as it’s not typical for MPs to vote for something which makes the country worse off, from a workers regulation, economic and freedom perspective. So how do MPs justify voting for this other than ‘getting Brexit done’?

Also, he has only got rid of the backstop, by agreeing to something previously rejected

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I'm fucked if I'm looking at or going off bookies on a subject like this.

truth is none of us know and it will go right to the wire.

Agreed

 

[BobKowalski]

A tie, then it comes down to Mr Speaker to decide.

Imagine the pressure of that, one man in a democracy deciding the future of the nation.

Precedent I believe means he votes it down. Change has to command a majority otherwise it can’t be passed.

 

[Chippy_boy]

May couldn’t have struck that agreement with Varadkar as she was hopeless at interpersonal politics or indeed anything

You could have finished there.

 

[west didsblue]

So long as it gets voted through tomorrow you can think what you like, it matters not one jot but we wont agree on that, ever.

One thing we can all agree on is that your technology and trusted trader solution that you kept touting in place of the backstop was complete bollocks. It could only ever be replaced by an Irish Sea border and a sell out of NI unionists, and here we are.

 

[aguero93:20]

Continued proof of the old adage - Never Trust A Tory

Yep. There's a reason we gave them that name.

 

[blueinsa]

Selling NI to the EU

That has not happened unlike the backstop that the EU would have 100% used did in effect.

You're a man that wants the people of the 4 nations to make their own decisions and here we have just that.

They remain in the UK and benefit from new trade deals and they remain under certain EU rules that means no hard border and gives many of them the certainty they enjoy now with an all Ireland trade model.

In 4 years time they get to decide for themselves what they want and both the republicans and unionists have an effective veto because they all get a democratic vote and voice.

No deal was never happening because it killed Ireland and under no circumstances was the hard border ever going too happen.

Sure the DUP are pissed but then they always are but lets not spend 3 years laughing at them Bob to suddenly feel sorry for them eh? They dont speak for the majority as you have constantly told us so like everyone else they will have to accept the democratic wish of their fellow citizens like we all have to do.

 

[blueinsa]

One thing we can all agree on is that your technology and trusted trader solution that you kept touting in place of the backstop was complete bollocks. It could only ever be replaced by an Irish Sea border and a sell out of NI unionists, and here we are.

Checks done at the ports of entry was also foretold was it not?

Bless you all upset at the sellout of the unionists given the way you have talked about them for 3 years.

Anyway dids, cant be arsed arguing with you any longer on this as it looks like the end game really is in sight and well, you wont get what you wanted or said you would.

 

[blueinsa]

A tie, then it comes down to Mr Speaker to decide.

Imagine the pressure of that, one man in a democracy deciding the future of the nation.

Then we will be still in because he is a remainer.

Not that remainers ever admitted that. No he was impartial and anyone accusing him of being an impartial remainers was wrong.

 

[Rascal]

Momentum have said that any Labour MP backing the deal will be deselected and replaced by a socialist candidate.

The PLP who will vote for the deal hate Corbyn and dont give a stuff what Momentum think.

Still it will be open warfare.

I rejoined Momentum this morning and as much as I think we should leave, any Labour MP that votes for a deal that removes workers rights is quite rightly finished.

I have posted that Brexit was never really just about Brexit it was also about the destruction of the Labour party and the chance for permanent rule for the Tories. A back door to a one party state, a state free to become the Singapore on Thames neo-liberal dreamland of the hard right.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Like him or not and most on here fucking hate him and brexit for that matter, politically he has out manoeuvred the lot of them in Westminster.

The only deal on the table he got rid of and brought a new one.

Proved he wasn't all about no deal.

The backstop that couldn't be got rid of he got rid of.

DUP aside he looks to have got the ERG, most of the Tory rebels and plenty from labour if the reports are true to back it come tomorrow.

Last but not least, he has got Dublin and Brussels and the 27 to agree to it and we have a chance to finally move onto the next stage.

He has played them all like a cheap fiddle imo when in any other times and with any other opposition he would have been toast, such is the sheer fucking crapness of Labour under Corbyn and that front bench.

Agree with most of that but you can include the people in that equation -when the story of Brexit is retold to future generations, Chapter 2 will begin with ' Boris made himself comfortable in his favourite chair as the rain lashed against his cottage window, he drew a piece of parchment from his old Bullington notebook and began with the words 'reason to remain'

Youré right he has played everybody like a cheap fiddle but he has also had to continually reposition himself multiple times as the playing field has been turned upside down from within and without and from a strategical point of view he should get credit for that; although he really does owe Jezza a large one next time he sees him at the HOC bar.

 

[inbetween]

If the deal goes through then Corbyn should resign.

I’m currently away so haven’t really kept up with things so forgive my ignorance but I’m assuming this ‘deal’ is not as good as remaining but it will get through in the interests of getting this ‘done’?

I agree and to be honest if the deal passes then Labour are completely finished.

How can they win an election on the basis of going into trade talks that they refuse to enter into or make a plan for?

We can't underestimate party politics here because a win for Boris here would be a seismic victory over Labour which is something rebels will weigh up.

I fully expect a GE if the deal passes and it will almost certainly result in a sizeable Tory majority.

 

[aguero93:20]

If it goes through it will be largely due to fatigue and many MPs not really caring about the unionist NI population. It should be the tories who stick up for them and that was a red line in tory thinking up to this point. Labour are not that arsed as they may well consider them a bunch of cunts. If you think that is a master stroke for BoJo then maybe it is of sorts. But there will be long term significant fall out from such an approach. NI will end up fully in the EU as any attempt to sort the border out will be forgotten - it was never going to work. That then pretty much nails on the case for a second ref in Scotland and that will be just as messy as brexit. And without the need to have a workable land border BoJo will move on a hard brexit trade deal very quickly which will ultimately result in a terrible trade deal with the EU which we will have very little choice but to accept. We will not hold all the cards.

Yeah he really needed to get the DUP onside by any means necessary before this went public.

Agree on the border solutions scenario as well, we've been waiting 98 years for the last border review the Tories promised us after all.