General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
Ancient Citizen said:
So, other than opponents of Johnson, it what way do you think this will persuade people to vote for Labour?
Floods happen, Johnson's not responsible for the weather, plus the areas affected are on flood plains, NHS is an easy target,
because it's never been right, free broadband is lunacy, etc; I know the mud slinging is part and parcel, but none seems to
be sticking. I know Labour are desperate to try and deflect from their feeble stance on Brexit, but this election has been called
because of it, to attempt to marginalise it as something nobody's particularly bothered about, is understandable, but futile imo.
Still, hope springs eternal, as they say.
Click to expand...

Its about the failure to tackle flooding though..... it's about the failure to pass legislation to provide adequate flood defences.

Its about turning a responsibility of DEFRA into a charitable organisation (Canals and Rivers Trust ) so it cant draw funds from the Government (done in 2012)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-1-billion-investment-secures-future-of-new-waterways-charity

Its about the failure to tackle the cladding issue though

A report pointing out the dangers of HPL cladding sat on a Tory Ministers desk (Pickles & Barwells) for years. They were written to on numerous occasions but failed to do anything

https://insidecroydon.com/2019/06/13/barwell-and-the-ignored-warnings-that-led-to-grenfell-tragedy/

Its about the lies that they tell about the NHS trying to convince everyone that everything is fine .... whilst all the evidence says its not and at the same time the Royal College of Nursing are running radio ads asking people to petition their MP about staff shortages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/14/ae-waiting-times-now-worst-since-records-began/

https://www.rcn.org.uk

Its about the mudslinging that they do about free broadband , when it will bring benefit to the poorer paid allowing children at home to complete proper research for their homework, allow people to search for jobs at home rather than have to go down to the library (which the Tories are closing at an ever increasing rate) allow people to claim welfare (which in the case of universal credit can only be done online) Order groceries to be delivered (which goes towards a reduction in Carbon emissions)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/tories-libraries-social-mobility-conservative

I would also point out that the Governments own report called 'Frontier Economics' published in 2018 is the basis of the numbers used by the Labour Party... in the report it confirms that using one provider would work out £12 billion cheaper than using multiple. The infrastructure is all provided by Openreach (with the exception of Virgin) anyway. But for some reason the Conservatives expect the British public to pick up the £12 billion cost - hardly acting for our benefit are they?

It's the fraud they committed when they bribed the DUP with yours and mine tax £ so they could stay in power. And now we have further evidence of electoral fraud & malpractice being investigated by the Met Police regarding offers made to the Brexit Party Candidates to incentivise them to stand down.



It's the lies they told about the need for austerity ... and now all of a sudden the Magic Money tree is in full bloom and we have been through a decade of pain and what is reckoned to be 120,000 attributable deaths because of it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-social-care-government-policy-a8057306.html

Its the lies they told in 2014 when they established the Military Covenant which made the promise that those and their families who serve or have served will be treated fairly and yet its believed that there are close on 14000 homeless veterans in the UK at todays date.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/least-13000-hero-soldiers-left-11847000

Its the lies they are telling that this General Election is all about Brexit when they have no policies to put forward other than to try and repair the damage of the last 10 years.

None of this is going unnoticed by the British public... you might think that this election is purely about Brexit ..... a lot of us don't.
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/16/voters-choice-tory-no-deal-or-second-referendum

Gauke saying the reality if Liar Johnson gets a majority is No Deal, if he doesn't extend transition. (Now obviously Johnson may be lying about not asking for an extension.)

Gauke says, “I don’t see what the escape route is if there is a Conservative majority. Will we withdraw [leave the EU] at the end of January 2020? Yes. Will the prime minister seek an extension to the implementation period before July 1 next year? No. Will a comprehensive free trade agreement be completed and ratified before December 31 2020? No.”

There is a way out of course. A lot of Tory MPs will still be panicked by the reality of No Deal. They would be up to four years from the next election (when maybe 40 of them would not be standing again). If the opposition proposes forcing the PM to ask for an extension, how many Tory rebels would rebel? (He has restored the whip to many rebels to help him win now so he can't claim he'd be surprised if they rebel again. Well he could because he's a liar.)

I'll now be trying to pin down our Tory candidate on whether he would rule out an extension and thus commit us to No Deal.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Its about the failure to tackle flooding though..... it's about the failure to pass legislation to provide adequate flood defences.

Its about turning a responsibility of DEFRA into a charitable organisation (Canals and Rivers Trust ) so it cant draw funds from the Government (done in 2012)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-1-billion-investment-secures-future-of-new-waterways-charity

Its about the failure to tackle the cladding issue though

A report pointing out the dangers of HPL cladding sat on a Tory Ministers desk (Pickles & Barwells) for years. They were written to on numerous occasions but failed to do anything

https://insidecroydon.com/2019/06/13/barwell-and-the-ignored-warnings-that-led-to-grenfell-tragedy/

Its about the lies that they tell about the NHS trying to convince everyone that everything is fine .... whilst all the evidence says its not and at the same time the Royal College of Nursing are running radio ads asking people to petition their MP about staff shortages.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/14/ae-waiting-times-now-worst-since-records-began/

https://www.rcn.org.uk

Its about the mudslinging that they do about free broadband , when it will bring benefit to the poorer paid allowing children at home to complete proper research for their homework, allow people to search for jobs at home rather than have to go down to the library (which the Tories are closing at an ever increasing rate) allow people to claim welfare (which in the case of universal credit can only be done online) Order groceries to be delivered (which goes towards a reduction in Carbon emissions)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/tories-libraries-social-mobility-conservative

I would also point out that the Governments own report called 'Frontier Economics' published in 2018 is the basis of the numbers used by the Labour Party... in the report it confirms that using one provider would work out £12 billion cheaper than using multiple. The infrastructure is all provided by Openreach (with the exception of Virgin) anyway. But for some reason the Conservatives expect the British public to pick up the £12 billion cost - hardly acting for our benefit are they?

It's the fraud they committed when they bribed the DUP with yours and mine tax £ so they could stay in power. And now we have further evidence of electoral fraud & malpractice being investigated by the Met Police regarding offers made to the Brexit Party Candidates to incentivise them to stand down.



It's the lies they told about the need for austerity ... and now all of a sudden the Magic Money tree is in full bloom and we have been through a decade of pain and what is reckoned to be 120,000 attributable deaths because of it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-social-care-government-policy-a8057306.html

Its the lies they told in 2014 when they established the Military Covenant which made the promise that those and their families who serve or have served will be treated fairly and yet its believed that there are close on 14000 homeless veterans in the UK at todays date.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/least-13000-hero-soldiers-left-11847000

Its the lies they are telling that this General Election is all about Brexit when they have no policies to put forward other than to try and repair the damage of the last 10 years.

None of this is going unnoticed by the British public... you might think that this election is purely about Brexit ..... a lot of us don't.
Click to expand...

Good rant

Re your final statement:

"None of this is going unnoticed by the British public... you might think that this election is purely about Brexit ..... a lot of us don't."

I am not sure that your views are borne out by the facts:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...-election-opinium-poll-idUKKBN1XQ0OZ?rpc=401&

But I could understand this would make you frustrated
 
Len Rum said:
One problem with that reply.
You state that Brexit would have been an utter disaster under Miliband.
But Brexit would not have happened under Milband - his policy was no referendum (and therefore Remain) had Labour won in 2015.
Despite your strong support for Remain you nevertheless stated that Brexit under the Tories was still preferable to Remain under a Milliband Government.
The conclusion being that your tribal support for the Tories was stronger than your support for Remain.
Click to expand...
I think we've established that. All his fervent Remain advocacy has simply dissipated. Good job it's on the record what a disaster he thinks Brexit will be
 
bluethrunthru said:
Recent history tells us

1/ don't believe polls
2/ there is a long way to go
3/ the current setup is just about incapable of delivering a WORKING majority. ( remember Mayday got a majority )
Click to expand...

Imho, wishful thinking, all 3, valid point on the 3rd. time will tell.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Good rant

Re your final statement:

"None of this is going unnoticed by the British public... you might think that this election is purely about Brexit ..... a lot of us don't."

I am not sure that your views are borne out by the facts:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...-election-opinium-poll-idUKKBN1XQ0OZ?rpc=401&

But I could understand this would make you frustrated
Click to expand...


Its not a rant ... simply trying to point out that this government has failed on so many fronts ..... they daren't let their past record become the main subject of this election ... they and their press (not all) will do and say everything and anything to keep you focused on the bright shiny thing over there.

Ive always said that Polls are intended to influence not forecast. I see that you didn't quote the Survation poll which has the gap at 6% or ComRes which has the gap at 8% or ICM which also has the gap at 8%.

All polls are subject to a wide range of potential sources of error. On the basis of the historical record of the polls at recent general elections, there is a 9 in 10 chance that the true value of a party’s support lies within 4 points of the estimates provided by this poll, and a 2 in 3 chance that they lie within 2 points.

Surprisingly (not) that the polls with the largest leads over Labour also happen to be owned managed by members of the Conservative party..... just saying

https://www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/#marginerror
 
I rest my case.....





Sunrise in Oxshott on the 15th was 7.21am

  1. Sunrise time in Oxshott, Surrey
    th

    07:21
    • 17 November · Sunset 16:10 · Daylight 9 hours

They cant do anything but lie.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
I rest my case.....





Sunrise in Oxshott on the 15th was 7.21am

  1. Sunrise time in Oxshott, Surrey
    th

    07:21
    • 17 November · Sunset 16:10 · Daylight 9 hours

They cant do anything but lie.
Click to expand...


He might have been down there at 6.30?

You have it bad, really bad if this is news to you or it rattles you lol.

Brilliant detective work though!
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
I rest my case.....




Sunrise in Oxshott on the 15th was 7.21am

  1. Sunrise time in Oxshott, Surrey
    th

    07:21
    • 17 November · Sunset 16:10 · Daylight 9 hours

They cant do anything but lie.
Click to expand...


That's obsessive. You're looking for a lie where there isn't one. The tweet doesn't say "it's 6.30 now", he's saying he got there or arranged to meet at 6.30. Obviously they did something else until the sun rose for the photo.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
That's obsessive. You're looking for a lie where there isn't one. The tweet doesn't say "it's 6.30 now", he's saying he got there or arranged to meet at 6.30. Obviously they did something else until the sun rose for the photo.
Click to expand...

You mean like talk to people?

Obsessive is an apt description of the reliance on twitter some have to somehow prove their opinions.
 
Bored if all this Twitter shit
Especially the labour supporters tweeting shit that only labour supporters will like
Same with Tory’s to an extent

These people don’t understand that the majority of people are neither right or left wing
They don’t want stupid shit like free broadband and 4 day weeks (which won’t happen)
They want streets to be safe, etc
 
Tb1981 said:
Bored if all this Twitter shit
Especially the labour supporters tweeting shit that only labour supporters will like
Same with Tory’s to an extent

These people don’t understand that the majority of people are neither right or left wing
They don’t want stupid shit like free broadband and 4 day weeks (which won’t happen)
They want streets to be safe, etc
Click to expand...

Echo chambers mate.

Social media is an echo chamber and those that use it for politics see tweets or facebook posts as confirmation of their own opinions and ideas.

My favourite is people using social media like crack coke addicts to tell us how social media has lied to us and made us vote a particular way.

Its absolutely fucking hilarious.

Many of us are not even on the platforms and but for this forum wouldn't see a tweet.
 
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There's a Labour MP who has just said on Breakfast tv that when she knocks on doors she is sick of hearing people complain of being charged £50 a month for 1MB broadband. Now, obviously I can't prove it, but I reckon THAT is a lie, or not the whole truth.
 
Tb1981 said:
Bored if all this Twitter shit
Especially the labour supporters tweeting shit that only labour supporters will like
Same with Tory’s to an extent

These people don’t understand that the majority of people are neither right or left wing
They don’t want stupid shit like free broadband and 4 day weeks (which won’t happen)
They want streets to be safe, etc
Click to expand...


Well as this is a social media platform and twitter is the most user friendly way to share online stories for any side it makes sense in these modern times that people would use it.

Also on top of that labour /tories and the rest are out doorstopping in numbers so not everything is online campaigning, but then me typing that doesn't make it true, the only way to evidence was with some online upload system or social mesia site.

Lastly free broadband is one if several and dozens of policies, ones on keeping the street safe will also exist all people have do us look up what they are, or wait till the manifesto(s) are published this week.

The broadband anouncement was a few days ago all I am seeing on the news this morning is NHS and Immigration, each policy gets a few day ls coverage then onto the next, though the NHS and brexit will be the ones most talked of.
 
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Tb1981 said:
Bored if all this Twitter shit
Especially the labour supporters tweeting shit that only labour supporters will like
Same with Tory’s to an extent

These people don’t understand that the majority of people are neither right or left wing
They don’t want stupid shit like free broadband and 4 day weeks (which won’t happen)
They want streets to be safe, etc
Click to expand...
That etc's doing a lot of work in that post.
Broadband to every home is surely a good thing, is it the 'free' bit you don't like?
 
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