Keir Starmer

[Mike D]

There's a difference between Boris Johnson saying 'the working class are feckless' and then promising policies that they want (on Brexit etc) and then Thornberry, Lewis et al (who've made similar remarks) but promising policies that the working class, by and large, do not want.

I think the 2019 result shows the working class aren't as thick as you make out (Brexit supporting towns voting for Brexit supporting parties) although that's not to say Johnson won't renege on a lot of his promises that he's made to them.

Have you not read the shit Johnson written about the working class about single parents etc? Like I said he is living proof people are dumb enough to believe you if you have the right ruthless **** character. She has it in spades

 

[hilts]

Because you don't like her that's what you mean?

I want a good opposition but our views on what that is is obviously different but if I say she isn’t very likeable then obviously I don’t like her.

 

[Blue Hefner]

So ‘working class’ people will vote for a posh Tory but not a posh Labour candidate?

Tory’s feel they are born to rule and act like it. And I think the population falls for it, given a helping hand by the Express, Sun, Mail etc.

Whilst the Tory sense of entitlement is a little sickening, it works. There’s isn’t a candidate out there who is the perfect fit, any and all will be put through the media mill for the next 5 years so it’s pointless worrying about that - they need someone who looks like they belong. Who can act the part of PM-in-waiting and if they are seen as part of the ‘establishment’ then so what, the media and their mates are hardly going to be any more welcoming to an ‘outsider’ are they?

Without knowing too much about him, I’d say Stamer is the most likely to be PM in the future. Can you really see Long-Bailey, Burgeon and the like on the world stage?

 

[bluejon]

The problem with Keynes and Labour is they love the spending in hard times but can never put aside while the sun shines. I think they call it Keynes part II whatever the circumstance tax and borrow. Can’t help themselves.

Fully agreed. You tighten your belts to save up when things are good

 

[hilts]

Fully agreed. You tighten your belts to save up when things are good

Its the problem with elections and in fairness the public. Let’s take a chance that no recession or downturn is around the corner. Splash the cash with election promises. Hard to do long term planning when you need votes every few years.

 

[plongo]

She is a lawyer and would wipe the floor with you me and that shit house Johnson

Lacking soft skills, both of you

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

But surely the point of getting the deficit down was to reduce the debt, and that hasn't happened, the debt has gone up. All the promises Osbourne and then Hammond made about where the economy would be as a result of austerity have been shown to be bollocks, it hasn't worked. I don't believe the deficit has gone down in real terms either. You only have to look at the way the conservatives calculate their employment figures to realise their figures on pretty much anything are complete bullshit.

The classic way to reduce a deficit as safely as possible involves a mix of three main actions. Obviously some cuts to spending is one, increasing revenue via tax increases is another and increasing productivity, which increases the tax take and provides a stimulus is the third. Osborne did the first but cut far too much and depressed growth. Ideology (and economic illiteracy) wouldn't allow him to do the second and we've never achieved the third. So we're still in a bit of an economic rut because of that.

 

[bluejon]

The classic way to reduce a deficit as safely as possible involves a mix of three main actions. Obviously some cuts to spending is one, increasing revenue via tax increases is another and increasing productivity, which increases the tax take and provides a stimulus is the third. Osborne did the first but cut far too much and depressed growth. Ideology (and economic illiteracy) wouldn't allow him to do the second and we've never achieved the third. So we're still in a bit of an economic rut because of that.

I'm going to argue that point one is wrong, and this is of course completely theoretical. In terms of government, when the shit has hit the fan in the free market, an injection of capital expenditure from the public sector is what i'd argue, in our theoretical football forum economic scenario. To be fair though, it's not the first time they've fucked up in this regard. Some chancellor called winston churchill made exactly the same mistake in the 30s. Leopards. Spots. All that.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Because you don't like her that's what you mean?

There is absolutely no chance Thornberry would firstly become the labour leader and secondly win a GE. She just isn't that likeable. That is a fact.

 

[xgorton]

There is absolutely no chance Thornberry would firstly become the labour leader and secondly win a GE. She just isn't that likeable. That is a fact.

Stamer & Long - Bailey bookies favorites.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Stamer & Long - Bailey bookies favorites.

Crazy appointments. Sadly the Labour party just refuse to learn from their mistakes.

 

[mcfc1632]

After that utterly disingenuous policy on Brexit that basically treated their core support with contempt - how can either Starmer or Thornberry be considered FFS

Simply guarantees more years of Tory government

 

[Ancient Citizen]

And that is exactly why Thornbury fits the bill she will do both as a lawyer she has the attention to detail on policy and as child brought by a single parent on a council estate she has the character to take on Johnson. More importantly she will be the first Labour leader with the characteristics to appeal to the electorate as a smarty gutsy character who takes no shit.

I don't think you, as a collective, will ever learn, the electorate you describe was mocked and ridiculed by Thornberry
and her ilk, constantly belittling Brexit voters, sneering at the working class, and avidly supporting the character that is
Corbyn. The other alternatives being offered are even less attractive, Long Bailey and Lewis are two more far left nutters
who will still be regaling us with the same tired, bankrupt socialist nonsense that has contributed in no small manner to
the electoral wipe out you've just witnessed. Whenever anyone suggests a Blairite leader, the cult immediately leaps to
denigrate and ridicule, yet the wider voting public wants this type, unfortunately for you, the members, no matter how many
of them, have done for the Labour party.

 

[CityStu]

I don't think you, as a collective, will ever learn, the electorate you describe was mocked and ridiculed by Thornberry
and her ilk, constantly belittling Brexit voters, sneering at the working class, and avidly supporting the character that is
Corbyn. The other alternatives being offered are even less attractive, Long Bailey and Lewis are two more far left nutters
who will still be regaling us with the same tired, bankrupt socialist nonsense that has contributed in no small manner to
the electoral wipe out you've just witnessed. Whenever anyone suggests a Blairite leader, the cult immediately leaps to
denigrate and ridicule, yet the wider voting public wants this type, unfortunately for you, the members, no matter how many
of them, have done for the Labour party.

Spot on. I don't think the core Labour vote mind posh people; nowadays many will have been to university and met people from many different backgrounds.

What people don't like is the feeling of being spoken down to - the attitude of vote for us as we know what's best for you. Whilst the likes of Cameron, May and Johnson are all posh, they don't really come across as patronising. Thornberry certainly does, as did Labour's whole Brexit policy to remove a legitimate Leave option.

Similarly, I think it's a little bit patronising to promise better public services at someone else's expense.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Okay then, we'll go off the targets for public debt that both Osbourne and Hammond set. None. As for the spending to get out of debt argument, I'll pass that one over to Keynes, who I have a tonne of time for. It was his ideas on public spending that lead to what many consider the golden age of modern britain. The public sector should be a motor for the economy, not just reacting to it.

Sure I get that but the general consensus in 2010 was that the deficit was too high and that were we not to take steps to reduce it then it would have had adverse effects on our credit rating and then on interest rates. Keeping rates as low as they are was imperative in order to recover investment levels and maintain liquidity. There is an argument perhaps that the brakes could have been taken off a little sooner but then Brexit came along.

Anyway, we are where we are. Let's see how it pans out from here. Will we be able to continue with more expansionary policies or will Brexit severely curtail growth and make further spending increases difficult or impossible? We'll see.

 

[blueinsa]

X factor.

Any political leader needs it.

I don't see any currently in the PLP.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The classic way to reduce a deficit as safely as possible involves a mix of three main actions. Obviously some cuts to spending is one, increasing revenue via tax increases is another and increasing productivity, which increases the tax take and provides a stimulus is the third. Osborne did the first but cut far too much and depressed growth. Ideology (and economic illiteracy) wouldn't allow him to do the second and we've never achieved the third. So we're still in a bit of an economic rut because of that.

I agree with the theory but not with your conclusions.

Osborne did the first, obviously but he was limited in how much of the second he could have done or that would have taken too much spending power out of the economy and depressed things further. But he did some tax raises. The higher rate band was reduced, fir example and NI was increased IIRC.

Moreover he did achieve growth. The economy turned around sharply and was in recovery and growing faster than the rest of Europe in the early parts of this decade. Perhaps we should have eased off on austerity a little sooner, I don't know.

 

[robbieh]

I don't think you, as a collective, will ever learn, the electorate you describe was mocked and ridiculed by Thornberry
and her ilk, constantly belittling Brexit voters, sneering at the working class, and avidly supporting the character that is
Corbyn. The other alternatives being offered are even less attractive, Long Bailey and Lewis are two more far left nutters
who will still be regaling us with the same tired, bankrupt socialist nonsense that has contributed in no small manner to
the electoral wipe out you've just witnessed. Whenever anyone suggests a Blairite leader, the cult immediately leaps to
denigrate and ridicule, yet the wider voting public wants this type, unfortunately for you, the members, no matter how many
of them, have done for the Labour party.

Who is this Blairite Leaver you talk of?

 

[Chippy_boy]

X factor.

Any political leader needs it.

I don't see any currently in the PLP.

And if evidence for it being a requirement is needed, I give you one Theresa May. Void of any charisma or "x-factor" and abjectly awful as a PM - one of the worst we have ever had.

 

[Mike D]

I want a good opposition but our views on what that is is obviously different but if I say she isn’t very likeable then obviously I don’t like her.

But forgive me for stating obvious but just because you don't like doesn't mean that the general public won't ? I can't stand Johnson but he is our PM but the majority of the general public do because they have just voted him in on a landslide.