Keir Starmer

mat said:
I'll give it 6 months and the main policy being rejoin the EU over stoping austerity 2.0 to boil my piss.
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That's been Starmers policy for 3 years. He'll just turn labour into a tory-lite remain party, pretend to be the solution to every ones problems and get himself 5 yrs in power not changing anything much at all besides brexit.
 
Mon Autre said:
That was 20 years ago though. Ed Miliband tried it and lost. People who think moving to the centre ground is some kind of magic bullet are in for a shock I think. Not only that, I think a lot of Corbyn's policies were nowhere near as radical or hard left as they were portrayed anyway.
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But what we have been absolutely shown is that...………..

Politics as left as Corbyn - let alone as left as yours and others on here, will never attract sufficient support to make you more than a protest movement.

Uncomfortable I accept - but a pure fact.

So you and others, either need to stay pure and remain a protest group or compromise

It is the way of life I am afraid
 
mcfc1632 said:
But what we have been absolutely shown is that...………..

Politics as left as Corbyn - let alone as left as yours and others on here, will never attract sufficient support to make you more than a protest movement.

Uncomfortable I accept - but a pure fact.

So you and others, either need to stay pure and remain a protest group or compromise

It is the way of life I am afraid
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To be fair, politically Corbyn is no further left than most of our governments pre-1980. He personally couldn’t and wouldn’t ever drum up enough support and it may take a while for the window to regress again (and it will), let’s not create a false history that he was overly left in the grand scheme of things though or that might not be viable again.
 
mat said:
People forget he's a Social Democrat. His policies are considered normal in Scandinavia. And they seem to have decent living standards because of it.

He was brought down by duplicitous MP's and staffers, along with a compliant media supporting them. The membership were behind Corbyn 100%. You only need to look in the change of tone they've have towards Sir Keir to see it. The internal report that has been leaked and the lack of coverage towards it proves it.
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Even qualified, that's balderdash. It was just stupid to give the same voting rights to people who'd been members for decades to people paying £3 to join.
 
mcfc1632 said:
But what we have been absolutely shown is that...………..

Politics as left as Corbyn - let alone as left as yours and others on here, will never attract sufficient support to make you more than a protest movement.

Uncomfortable I accept - but a pure fact.

So you and others, either need to stay pure and remain a protest group or compromise

It is the way of life I am afraid
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I don't think I've spoken huge amounts about how far to the left I am. I think with labour it often comes down to whichever faction is in charge as to how far to the left their policies are perceived even though there isn't always that much in it. There's a perception now that Starmer is more centrist than he really is and there was a perception Corbyn was more left than he really is.
I have a few doubts about Starmer but I really want to support him and for it to work out. A failure to address the issues that have come to light regarding the senior management team in the party will make it harder for me though.
 
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Mon Autre said:
I don't think I've spoken huge amounts about how far to the left I am. I think with labour it often comes down to whichever faction is in charge as to how far to the left their policies are perceived even though there isn't always that much in it. There's a perception now that Starmer is more centrist than he really is and there was a perception Corbyn was more left than he really is.
I have a few doubts about Starmer but I really want to support him and for it to work out. A failure to address the issues that have come to light regarding the senior management team in the party will make it harder for me though.
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Pretty much my view.

By not addressing it he's either appeasing or supporting it. The choice of the next LP chair will confirm it.
 
mat said:
Pretty much my view.

By not addressing it he's either appeasing or supporting it. The choice of the next LP chair will confirm it.
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Yeah definitely. I mean his original plan was to put Emilie Oldknow in them role. I'm not totally up to speed but surely he won't be doing that now.
 
Gaudion M said:
I associated Leave / anti EU sentiment with both extreme right and left. Its the idea that the EU prevents you running the country the way you want and therefore you have to leave. For the Lefties its the limitations on state aide and commitment to the free market (capitalism). For the right its about immigration and bigotry.

This is very evident when you ask a Tory to name a single benefit of leaving the EU. You only ever get 2 responses: 1 is free movement of people and the insistence this is a net drain on our economy when the reverse is true and 2 is new international trade deals which is in fact a negative as the vast majority of new deals we will do will be deals to replace the ones we lose as part of the EU (we will be net worse of for many years).
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Fascism is anti-free-market and anti-capitalist too, and the EU is neo-liberal-capitalist.
 
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Psychedelic Casual said:
Fascism is anti-free-market and anti-capitalist too, and the EU is neo-liberal-capitalist.
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That's a bit of a simplification mate.

Fascism basically has no set economic theory behind it, although it does protect the elites at the expense of the working class. Its overall goal is that once Nationalism becomes overbearing everything is subjected to the national good and both the rich elite and poor working class are expected to work towards a common goal for the good of the nation. The price for the subjugation of the elites wealth is the protection corporatism offers them, as you see from Nazi Germany many private companies became very wealthy thanks to Fascism because they provided the means to build the Nazi war machine. They feathered their own nest for the supposed nations good. Fascist economies are based on private ownership and private initiative as long as that private ownership is subjugated to the will of the nation and as a result they will receive the backing of the state through corporatism.


Gone a bit off topic.

Anyway, if Emily Oldknow becomes the new Labour Gen Secretary, the current rumblings of discontent with Starmer could well break out into all out civil war in the party and I do think Starmer is that fucking stupid and maybe that desperate to get rid of the left he will do it. I am so fucked off with the Labour Party at the moment and if one of the backstabbers gets promoted it is a real kick in the teeth to those of us who did the leafleting etc during the run up to the election without knowing they working against us and wanting us to lose.

I could go back and answer all the replies to my last post, and give reasons why I think and believe the way I do but I am quickly reaching the point of thinking why bother at all as myself and others who hold Socialist values are further away from seeing them implemented than ever and all I would be doing would be banging my head repeatedly against the wall.

It so saddens me that we have this current govt in power, led by one of the worst PMs in history, who has proved totally unfit for the role of PM and the only people I can blame are the fuckwits in Labour HQ who hate Socialism more than Capitalism.
 
Thought it was a very good riposte to say the governments been doing the international comparisons themselves for weeks now.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Give it a rest.
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It’s my genuine view.

It’s not really a criticism of Corbyn, he’s probably a better campaigner than Starmer. He was good at rallying a crowd.

But PMQ’s is the perfect arena for Starmer. As a QC he knows how to lay a trap and watch Bozo walk right in to it, like he did with the graph today.

Corbyn would have come out with bluster at the start showing the graph and then just repeating himself at every opportunity, shouting louder each time.

But Starmer’s thinking 2 moves ahead, calmly and with precision just totally outclassing the opposition. It’s like the difference between a James Milner and a David Silva.
 
bluethrunthru said:
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QCs only ask questions to which they already know the answer.

Johnson clearly didn't do his homework, he must have known that Starmer would lead with the figures. For Johnson to fall back on the veracity of international comparisons was lazy, that's been the Tories stock response these last few days, easily predicted. So Starmer had his reply prepared, waving the international comparison graph the Tories have been using in their daily briefs.

Johnson will be fuming, there's nothing more annoying for an idiot than to be shown up as an idiot, look at Trump.
 
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