Keir Starmer

Ancient Citizen said:
All I ever see under Labour are big rises in spending, hundreds of thousands of
public sector non jobs, many more unemployed, and the country's coffers empty
after each and every term.
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Unemployment rate now? National debt now?
 
Vic said:
Unemployment rate now? National debt now?
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After a coronavirus epidemic? really?
I also notice you lead with the 'national debt' argument - ignoring the fact that tories have reduced deficit to end 2019 consistently following Labour's government.

2019 -58,755 -2.10%
2018 -63,463 -2.20%
2017 -65,543 -2.50%
2016 -90,252 -3.30%
2015 -134,522 -4.60%
2014 -170,517 -5.60%
2013 -154,005 -5.50%
2012 -221,371 -8.20%
2011 -199,871 -7.50%
2010 -229,726 -9.30%
2009 -244,268 -10.10%

https://countryeconomy.com/deficit/uk
 
RabidCity said:
After a coronavirus epidemic? really?
I also notice you lead with the 'national debt' argument - ignoring the fact that tories have reduced deficit to end 2019 consistently following Labour's government.

2019 -58,755 -2.10%
2018 -63,463 -2.20%
2017 -65,543 -2.50%
2016 -90,252 -3.30%
2015 -134,522 -4.60%
2014 -170,517 -5.60%
2013 -154,005 -5.50%
2012 -221,371 -8.20%
2011 -199,871 -7.50%
2010 -229,726 -9.30%
2009 -244,268 -10.10%

https://countryeconomy.com/deficit/uk
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Oh look. You missed out the Labour years before the crash.
2009 -244,268 -10.10%
2008 -151,114 -5.10%
2007 -82,488 -2.70%
2006 -75,252 -2.80%
2005 -79,979 -3.10%
2004 -74,305 -3.10%
2003 -64,386 -3.10%
2002 -33,531 -1.90%
2001 3,510 0.20%
2000 22,581 1.40%
1999 10,549 0.60%
1998 -5,391 -0.30%
1997 -31,143 -2.10%
 
Ancient Citizen said:
You have put up a long list there, all of which are criticisms based on your
perceptions, not reality, I cant be arsed answering each one, but will have a bash at a few,,,

That is just one of your perceptions, profit=tax=money to fund services.

Why are all the services being cut then?



You can start a topic on CND if you like, but people value the protection.
Each and every CND argument is rejected, by the people, but it's interesting.

How does a big fuck off bomb in a submarine under the artic ice shelf protect Openshaw?


Silly smear tactics, tell us who is denied equality, and which institution promotes
it.

access to jobs such in the judiciary, parliament, banking, journalism and lots more sector are dominated by those who went to publics school


Because people are not class obsessed, do not harp on about it, and are happy
with private schools, the other characteristics are your personal opinions,
not those of many. Plus, even if we accept them, Corbyn's were far worse.

As subjective as you assume I was being

We've had mostly Tory governments since the NHS was formed, if they wanted it sold
off, it would have been. How would selling it off benefit them? they would be out toot sweet.

Why are the following the same pattern with the NHS that they have with every other public owned asset, defund, destroy, outsource


Which tax cuts? A person earning £80 thou a year pays around 5 times more tax than
someone on £25000, tax is graded 20% 40% and 45%, the 'Rich' pay more, the very rich
1% pay around a third of the total tax take. Tax them more, you get less, the balance is about
right. So what other tax breaks are they getting?

The Laffer Curve has long been discredited as idiotic economics, its now called the laughable curve.


The education budget has increased year on year, where do you get your info
from?
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_education_analysis.

I haven't opened the link, it may have increased in real terms without increasing.

The reason you can't understand 'Why' is your politics are not viewed as beneficial
to working folk, they see through the simplistic nonsense of blaming wealthy people,
they long ago eschewed envy politics, and under the Tories, have done relatively well.
Constantly telling them that they're not, doesn't wash, Labour have taken this tack
for years, and still don't understand why it doesn't work.

I don't hate people with wealth, I want them to pay their fair share. They do a great job of convincing people they do as they control the media

Blair, hated by the left, knew how to win them over, he used optimism, and
understood the value of courting business, not punishing it, unless they return to
this model they'll be knackered forever.

Bair wasn't a Socialist, he was a neo-liberal imperialist not much different to the tories
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Rascal said:
Explain to me why they do then?

The NHS is a beloved institution, why do people vote for a party that despises the NHS and would love to sell it off.
Why do working class people vote for a party that offers tax cuts to the rich, but not themselves.
Why do the working class vote for a party that cuts education funding for their kids
Why do the working class vote for a party that closes down the parks and youth clubs their kids play at
Why do working class people vote for a party that despises Unions
Why do working class people vote for people who raise regressive taxes like VAT
Why do working class people vote for a party that supports zero hours contracts
Why do the working class vote for a party that has raised pension ages
Why do the working class vote for a party that pays one of the lowest pensions in Europe
Why do the working class vote for a party that puts profit before people
Why do the working class vote for a party that will waste billions on nuclear weapons
Why do the working class vote for a party that has all but destroyed the welfare state safety net
Why do the working class vote for a party that is fine with homelessness
Why do the working class vote for a party that closes libraries
Why do the working class vote for a party that puts bankers before buses
Why do the working class vote for a party that is fine with inequality of opportunity
Why do the working class vote for a party that does little about poverty
Why do the working class vote for a party that does not recognise the public sector has a place
Why do the working class vote for a party that promotes privilege
Why on this fucking earth would the working class ever vote for crony capitalism
And why the fuck would the working class vote for an old Etonian Bullingdon boy lying narcissistic **** like Johnson.

I have more whys, but I am trying to get through to the GPs to get an appointment for my mum and I fear at any moment my phone will go through the window.
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Very good post, all true, doctors appointment ....dont be silly.
Feel free to add more whys, but sadly all they will do is outline what a disgrace that the opposition has become to allow the Tories to win the last election, and incredibly following the pandemic clusterfuck, the next one as well.

You have to ask yourself why considering all those correct points you make we could not vote for Labour. It is in the main because they are an seen as extreme. People feel that to vote for Labour would be to vote for themselves becoming second class citizens below anyone ethnic or sexually diverse. IT is because people know that to get rid of our nuclear weapons would be stupidity in the extreme.

Whilst few are happy with how our country and society is they are absolutely horrified at the thought of we we would go under a Labour government until there is a radical shift and many of the current powers that be are nowhere near the job.

There is nothing good about the Tories, nothing at all, they are a lamentable shower who have made an absolute mess of the covid outbreak, they are in the process of doing the same with Breit, but sadly the vast majority will take that adl before risking the alternative.
 
I notice David Miliband is now criticising the left of the Labour party and Corbyn for undermining Sir Keith and hasn't ruled out a return to frontline politics.

The hypocrisy of the **** knows no bounds. When his father was disgracefully attacked by the Mail, it was the left who supported his father, it was Corbyn who was on TV supporting his father and now David fresh from his job at the UN dept of international terrorism and capitalist exploitation wants to help return Labour back to the days of Blairism.


Another nail in the coffin of the Labour party, I mean the **** couldn't even win an election when both candidates were called Miliband.

There needs to be a new Socialist party of the left that reflects working class values rather than the current regime with its bohemian liberal London centric establishment font.
 
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Rascal said:
I notice David Miliband is now criticising the left of the Labour party and Corbyn for undermining Sir Keith and hasn't ruled out a return to frontline politics.

The hypocrisy of the **** knows no bounds. When his father was disgracefully attacked by the Mail, it was the left who supported his father, it was Corbyn who was on TV supporting his father and now David fresh from his job at the UN dept of international terrorism and capitalist exploitation wants to help return Labour back to the days of Blairism.


Another nail in the coffin of the Labour party, I mean the **** couldn't even win an election when both candidates were called Miliband.

There needs to be a new Socialist party of the left that reflects working class values rather than the current regime with its bohemian liberal London centric establishment font.
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You and the like minded absolutely need your own party and i dont say that in a disparaging or sarcastic way.

The Labour party has flirted with the left in Corbyn and it isn't going to go back that way any time soon.

It will now pander very much to a pro EU audience and business in an attempt to get elected.

My take is it will make them very electable in London and not so much elsewhere.

As you where then........
 
Ban-jani said:
Is it just me or is Starmer definitely left wing?

He’s certainly not a Blairite.

keirstarmer.com

Keir Starmer - MP for Holborn and St Pancras and Labour Leader

Keir Starmer is a husband, father, and former lawyer who has fought for fairness his whole working life. He is now Labour Party leader.
keirstarmer.com keirstarmer.com
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Yep - Starmer is a bit too far left for me. I think the party went the wrong way when Ed got the job over David. And from there on its been going downhill at the hands of the far left nutters who thought he wasn't left enough. For me I'm good with Starmer as he is taking on the far left nutters and that is the road back.
 
blueinsa said:
I never believed a word of that to be fair.

He is about as socialist as Johnson is.
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Going off the furlough and eat out schemes he’s pretty socialist then ;-)

In all seriousness we can only take him for what he’s pledging now, he’s put those things out there, they’re definitely social democratic, if not basic compared to a manifesto but still... I don’t actually think the party has moved that far away in terms of where they were under Corbyn, it’s just mostly personnel change.
 
Gaudion M said:
Yep - Starmer is a bit too far left for me. I think the party went the wrong way when Ed got the job over David. And from there on its been going downhill at the hands of the far left nutters who thought he wasn't left enough. For me I'm good with Starmer as he is taking on the far left nutters and that is the road back.
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Rascal isn’t going to be happy with you :-)

Im a floating voter and could very much be persuaded by Starmer, I’m not opposed to living in a social democracy as I agree with his social policies.
 
Ban-jani said:
Rascal isn’t going to be happy with you :-)

Im a floating voter and could very much be persuaded by Starmer, I’m not opposed to living in a social democracy as I agree with his social policies.
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I'm mostly a labour voter. Took a timeout out in protest at JC in 2017 but other than that Labour in every other election. There are far more people like you and I than there are people who think Labour is not left enough. The Corbynites are a faction within a party - they have zero reach beyond it.
 
Gaudion M said:
I'm mostly a labour voter. Took a timeout out in protest at JC in 2017 but other than that Labour in every other election. There are far more people like you and I than there are people who think Labour is not left enough. The Corbynites are a faction within a party - they have zero reach beyond it.
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I don’t come at it from an ideological perspective. Say for example JC’s policy on nationalising OpenReach, industry experts and former leaders of BT said it was a terrible decision that would affect many jobs.

Now, I think the rail industry is a disgrace and I’m open to nationalising that definitely, once I see a bit more detail I can make my mind up.

I’m perfectly happy for basic necessities to be under public ownership, such as energy and transport and mail etc. Im not opposed to it at all, if it makes sense practically.

I just think the whole Corbyn package wasn’t right but then I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory, my seat is always Tory or Liberal anyway, so went LibDem.

The Social Democrat Party are my party in the UK, left wing economically but don’t have anything to do with the metropolitan bohemian bourgeois lot.

Trouble is they never stand anyone where I am.
 
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