Keir Starmer

I don’t come at it from an ideological perspective. Say for example JC’s policy on nationalising OpenReach, industry experts and former leaders of BT said it was a terrible decision that would affect many jobs.

Now, I think the rail industry is a disgrace and I’m open to nationalising that definitely, once I see a bit more detail I can make my mind up.

I’m perfectly happy for basic necessities to be under public ownership, such as energy and transport and mail etc. Im not opposed to it at all, if it makes sense practically.

I just think the whole Corbyn package wasn’t right but then I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory, my seat is always Tory or Liberal anyway, so went LibDem.

The Social Democrat Party are my party in the UK, left wing economically but don’t have anything to do with the metropolitan bohemian bourgeois lot.

Trouble is they never stand anyone where I am.

I have the same view on nationalisation. There is a time and a place for it. The rail system in the UK is a mess, as are utility companies. But the solutions are different. They need reorganising and regulating first and full nationalisation when that doesn't work.
 
The rejection of biology, nature and science in general is what will dissuade me from voting for Starmer at the moment. Points 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 also have issues.
Out of interest could you expand on that, I would love to understand why you have issues with the points raised and what you mean by rejection of biology, nature and science.
 
Out of interest could you expand on that, I would love to understand why you have issues with the points raised and what you mean by rejection of biology, nature and science.

1. As with any tax increase aimed at highest earners, it has to be balanced with retaining tax receipts currently received so the burden isn't passed down to those lower down the food chains. I would be more interested in greater protections of jobs, stopping companies undercutting by moving their factories/jobs across the world to who gives them the lowest bid. I'd rather tackle that and put penalties/levies on companies who want to sell here but want to move jobs or their tax obligations away.

2. I don't agree with abolishing tuition fees, and I find the language woolly and emotional rather than being specific on what they want to create/invest in.

5. Whilst I agree that some "public ownership" could be beneficial i.e. rail, I think there needs to be a business case and where private entities can run it more efficiently and absorb some of the costs it should be done that way. I'd also rather this "public ownership" came through a national investment bank owning and investing in the assets independently of the government.

6. I don't agree with free movement to work and reside. I think for these, everyone should be held to the same merit based system.

7. I don't want hugely increased trade union powers, I don't want the country brought to a standstill and constant strikes and disruption, particularly in an era where we need to get back to some form of normal which means working and doing our bit. Also, the language used around unions and their treatment of people who disagree, as well as the faux comradeship whilst the powers that be at the top reap huge rewards in excess of what they provide their members just says to me, whilst they have some limited usage, it should be a pretty high barrier for them to create disruption because it should only be those actions which achieve a consensus where they should have the power to act, as these are clearly the issues which have sufficient importance.

In regards to the science/nature bit, I'm not prepared to divulge further as I'm aware of the bullying and harassment I will be subjected to by some elements. They aren't right, but they shout loudly enough that their belligerence stifles conversation and enables them to deconstruct the fundamentals of existence.
 
In regards to the science/nature bit, I'm not prepared to divulge further as I'm aware of the bullying and harassment I will be subjected to by some elements. They aren't right, but they shout loudly enough that their belligerence stifles conversation and enables them to deconstruct the fundamentals of existence.
Thanks for your reply , it was interesting and food for thought, this bit though fascinates me and i would love to know your rationale, i maybe be a bit of a gob on a stick at times but i do try to treat peoples views with respect, although i admit that doesn't always seem the case.

PM me if you wish with your views.
 
Thanks for your reply , it was interesting and food for thought, this bit though fascinates me and i would love to know your rationale, i maybe be a bit of a gob on a stick at times but i do try to treat peoples views with respect, although i admit that doesn't always seem the case.

PM me if you wish with your views.

Not wishing to but in but I’m guessing he means gender issues, plenty find it pretty ridiculous but it’s one of those issues that has been decided and pushed upon the public.

Could be way off the mark though.
 
Not wishing to but in but I’m guessing he means gender issues, plenty find it pretty ridiculous but it’s one of those issues that has been decided and pushed upon the public.

Could be way off the mark though.
If he is I agree with him.
 
Not wishing to but in but I’m guessing he means gender issues, plenty find it pretty ridiculous but it’s one of those issues that has been decided and pushed upon the public.

Could be way off the mark though.

Correct was was the OP.
 
Not wishing to but in but I’m guessing he means gender issues, plenty find it pretty ridiculous but it’s one of those issues that has been decided and pushed upon the public.

Could be way off the mark though.

It may well be, its a debate I don't really have any strong opinions on either way. I know some do though. Its a shame he feels he would be attacked for airing his views though.
 
It may well be, its a debate I don't really have any strong opinions on either way. I know some do though. Its a shame he feels he would be attacked for airing his views though.

Last time I checked the gender groups ranged from 15 to over a 100. It's the point when utter madness sets in. Intolerance will be the cry no doubt to anyone who can be arsed sticking their necks out publicly.

Bafflement sums it up best for me. I think other issues have hampered it's progress so far.
 
I would be surprised if Labour win another election in my lifetime, I am 54 now and the splits in the party caused by the centrists are deep. The centrists never accepted the democratic choice of the members in electing Corbyn just like they never accepted the democratic choice of the people over Brexit. They have marginalised and purged the left of the party and the broad Labour movement is finished. The centrist/Blairites are no different from the Tories in that they exist for self fulfilment not for the good of the people or the nation. Self serving cunts like Austin undermined Labour at every turn and got rewarded with a Lordship from Johnson.

On another forum that I frequent I said before the BREXIT referendum that it was a calculated stroke of genius from Osborne to hold a referendum, Cameron was too fucking stupid to see it, but Osborne as much as I despise the **** saw the opportunity to destroy the Labour party and took the gamble. It worked too, Labour should always have been the party of leave but it allowed itself to be hijacked by the FBFE fruitcakes/ metropolitan liberal elites like Starmer and Kinnock et al and they betrayed the working class that had always been Labour supporters. The red wall voting Tory in support of BREXIT should have been a massive wake up call but the parties position was so ambigious and Starmers idiotic compromise led it to defeat. This could be done because of the traitorous cunts at Labour HQ and the backstabbing pro EU MPs like Austin, Ummuna and others who chose to support the neo-liberal corporate loving EU over the working class needs of the UK population.

UKIP was as big threat to Labour as it was the Tories and Labours stupidity allowed Farage to gain traction and instead of Labour leading a leave campaign based on Socialist values we got a leave campaign based on Nationalist values and those desperate for change chose nationalism disguised as patriotism over Socialism. Labour should have backed leave as Labour has traditionally been a patriotic party of the working class that espoused real British values of welfarism and compassion rather than Conservative truisms of exploitation and subjugation to corporate capitalism.

If Labour is not the party of the working class then it is nothing, the last manifesto was a good one but it was undermined continually by members of its own party who allowed other issues to cloud the manifesto and instead of supporting the leadership actively worked against it and supported coups against the members wishes. A party divided never gets elected. The fucking idiotic pro-EU labour lobby have made a no deal Brexit more likely instead of a managed Socialist Brexit we could have had. Their wanton stupidity not only demeaned Labour it helped the Tories get elected and for that I will never forgive the cunts, because they have wreaked fucking havoc as always because they are biggest bunch of clueless cunts to ever be elected and its the Labour centrist/pro EU balloons who are too blame for it. Now the silly cunts expect the likes of me to back them after they have wrecked the party and they can get to fuck because they don't have a socialist bone between them.

I do genuinely think the Labour party as an electoral force is finished and a new party of the left is needed, one that is Socialist, anti EU and internationalist, a party that champions the working class, supports the NHS and the welfare state, is strong on defence, policing and is against corporatism and nationalism. It should be progressive and support public ownership of national assets, support collectivism over individualism and not be afraid to tackle inequality.

In the meanwhile Starmer will limp on, the Tory press will love him as he is no threat to establishment norms and the damaging inequalities in our society will continue to increase expotentially as the capitalist class continue to exploit the working class.

Johnson is a lucky ****, the worst PM in our history has an opposition who lickspittle his backside and offer no alternative to the the damage his idiocy is bringing upon our country.

If there was a God i would pray for him to help us out of this shitstorm but there isnt so we are fucked and we will be fucked for generations.
I always enjoy your posts

I recognise you as being consistent and true to your values - unlike so many on here that I regard as faux-left because they are utterly inconsistent and do not share appropriate principles and values
 
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Labour lost badly because of BREXIT, it failed to support it, when it should have done and that left the working class at odds with the party. It made Labour look the party of the liberal metro elite and the red wall fucked them off as a result.

Britain has got huge problems with poverty, parts of Manchester are amongst the poorest areas in Europe, we have more foodbanks than Mcdonalds, the austerity years were cruel on those with least, the minimum wage is a joke, the NHS is crumbling and lacks funding, the schools are a disgrace, UK students pay some of the highest fees in the world, we have massive problems with homelessness, their is a crisis in mental health services, zero hour jobs are a piss take, the manufacturing industry has been destroyed, the Banks have took the piss, the roads are full of potholes, the railways are third world, town centres are dying, yes some are doing well and good luck to them but many are not and those who are not doing well are doing even worse under this miserable fucking excuse for a Govt, but the very tradesman who are doing well complained about immigrants taking their jobs so who are they doing well?

Politics in this country is always about class, everything that is done is about class, Blair claimed we are all middle class now, the fucking clown pandering to the Thatcherite myth of a meritocracy, a meritocracy that does not exist because Capitalism does not allow for a meritocracy so the Capitalists use their influence to paint anything that threatens their hegemony as hard left because they hate parting with their money, they are only patriotic towards their bank balance and yachts in the Cayman Islands not to the country or its millions of hard working decent folk struggling to get by from day to day with no savings and relying on foodbanks to feed their kids.

And what we have now is a Labour party in thrall to the capitalists because they have backed Starmer and he is no threat to their hegemony because he needs their money to become PM.
Spot on - and yet so many still refuse to accept the simple truth
 
Vic spent the entire campaign on the phone to his mates i think, an echo chamber.

Labour lost because of its remain stance and because a lifetime EU sceptic in Corbyn betrayed not only his own beliefs but those of millions of his normally loyal core vote.
the campaigning was probably all done via WhatsApp groups;-)
 
Last time I checked the gender groups ranged from 15 to over a 100. It's the point when utter madness sets in. Intolerance will be the cry no doubt to anyone who can be arsed sticking their necks out publicly.

Bafflement sums it up best for me. I think other issues have hampered it's progress so far.
I have always been pretty much live and let live, its not something i get hot or bothered about. When i used to do the Human Library one of the books was a Transexual from Bolton, i would like to think i treated her with the same respect i treat any other person, she was OK with me and we chatted about life in general during breaks and had a laugh just as i would any other person. She never pushed her situation on anybody, she just told her story through her book. When we looked at the reading figures her book was one of the most popular, far more popular than mine because i think her back story fascinated people where as mine is pretty dull.

Its a shame the Human Library no longer runs as i would love to get her views on all this gender stuff.
 
I have always been pretty much live and let live, its not something i get hot or bothered about. When i used to do the Human Library one of the books was a Transexual from Bolton, i would like to think i treated her with the same respect i treat any other person, she was OK with me and we chatted about life in general during breaks and had a laugh just as i would any other person. She never pushed her situation on anybody, she just told her story through her book. When we looked at the reading figures her book was one of the most popular, far more popular than mine because i think her back story fascinated people where as mine is pretty dull.

Its a shame the Human Library no longer runs as i would love to get her views on all this gender stuff.
Good point, it's my view that the person you're talking about represents the true face of Transexuals, My stepsons best mate got married to a Jock lass about 6 years ago, great do at the hotel opposite Royal Troon (if that's right, I don't watch golf) golf course. At the reception one of the relatives of the bride was introduced to us, a massive (man/woman?) dressed in women's clothes, she had two sons, the nicest young lads you could meet, and she was the wittiest, most intelligent person around, no edge at all, and nobody commented about her appearance, all in all, a well balanced, rounded individual with a great family. I don't know if she was transexual, gay (would doubt that), or just liked cross dressing, and don't care which.
Most of the strident, finger pointing, rants we hear come from people determined to push the narrative that most hate/despise these people,
not from the individuals themselves, they just get on with life.
 
I have always been pretty much live and let live, its not something i get hot or bothered about.

Most blokes don't, it doesn't effect them, but it does effect women and because the left, for the most part, sees everything through the prism of masculine class based politics, or pick and mix identity politics, it can amble in to ludicrous policy positions regarding women by dint of lazy misogyny.



They are all men.

It is now considered a "hate incident" to state that obvious irrefutable fact.



A Cabinet Member for Children’s Services at Swansea Council no less!

Remember, we should be....

“Creating a more equal post-Covid-19 world for people who menstruate”

“People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

JK Rowling

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Horror in Hogwarts!

Or how about “individuals with a cervix”.

Of course anyone who thinks "hang on a minute" is motivated by hate, even Ancient Citizen thinks so!
 
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I notice David Miliband is now criticising the left of the Labour party and Corbyn for undermining Sir Keith and hasn't ruled out a return to frontline politics.

The hypocrisy of the **** knows no bounds. When his father was disgracefully attacked by the Mail, it was the left who supported his father, it was Corbyn who was on TV supporting his father and now David fresh from his job at the UN dept of international terrorism and capitalist exploitation wants to help return Labour back to the days of Blairism.


Another nail in the coffin of the Labour party, I mean the **** couldn't even win an election when both candidates were called Miliband.

There needs to be a new Socialist party of the left that reflects working class values rather than the current regime with its bohemian liberal London centric establishment font.
Good news if Miliband really is contemplating a return. Another step towards making Labour electable for a significant proportion of the population, the ones that don’t have much interest in far left ideology.
 
Of course anyone who thinks "hang on a minute" is motivated by hate, even Ancient Citizen thinks so!
Now now, behave yourself, I'm actually in full agreement, for once, with you, the
scenarios you depict above are reflective of modern Labour, and indeed other political parties. You asked me for evidence, and then went on to provide it yourself, Labour are now saying people like me, and indeed you, are guilty of hate crimes by just questioning what is being projected by them as 'Normal.'
These are the ones pushing the 'Hate' buttons, as you have just shown us.
 
Good news if Miliband really is contemplating a return. Another step towards making Labour electable for a significant proportion of the population, the ones that don’t have much interest in far left ideology.

I just read, agreed with and liked your post!
 

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