COVID-19 — Coronavirus

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marvin said:
Talk of a national lockdown, or circuit breaker, call it what you will, is completely ridiculous.

According to the Gov.uk site we have a testing capacity of 350,000 tests per day. We have a map of clusters all over the UK, and there are some regions which have detected virus levels at 700 per 100,000 whilst other areas have less than 70 per 100,000.

I am not against lockdowns per se when the spike is in your face but we should use our resources carefully and be smart about this. Politicians even now are incredibly opportunistic. In fact most of Western government has failed. Look at the US political system. Look at the WHO. Completely inept. They should be trialing the vaccines instead of leaving it to national states like Russia and China that we do not understand/trust.
Click to expand...
Which guineapigs do you suggest we trial these unproven vaccines on?
 
Marvin said:
Talk of a national lockdown, or circuit breaker, call it what you will, is completely ridiculous.

According to the Gov.uk site we have a testing capacity of 350,000 tests per day. We have a map of clusters all over the UK, and there are some regions which have detected virus levels at 700 per 100,000 whilst other areas have less than 70 per 100,000.

I am not against lockdowns per se when the spike is in your face but we should use our resources carefully and be smart about this. Politicians even now are incredibly opportunistic. In fact most of Western government has failed. Look at the US political system. Look at the WHO. Completely inept. They should be trialing the vaccines instead of leaving it to national states like Russia and China that we do not understand/trust.
Click to expand...
So you are saying that you know better than the scientists then?
 
shemnel said:
well, my quiet(ish) part of lancashire is lumped in with the rest of the county and into Tier 3 we go. Hard to take, considering our cases, but i suppose that's that.
Click to expand...

Which is where the idea of ‘local’ lockdown falls apart - the entire North of England cannot reasonably be described as ‘local’ in my view
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
So you are saying that you know better than the scientists then?
Click to expand...
There's no uniformity of opinion and this is more a matter of logistics.

This is a war. The science produces the tests, medicine and the vaccines whilst the generals conduct the war.

It's bad general who can't discriminate between the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. In March we didn't know where Covid was. Now we do.

People have limited resources. It doesn't make sense for people in the South West, or Eastern England or those towns and villages with very little infection to make the same sacrifices as people in cities like Manchester and Liverpool. You want everyone to share the misery?
 
Marvin said:
There's no uniformity of opinion and this is more a matter of logistics.

This is a war. The science produces the tests, medicine and the vaccines whilst the generals conduct the war.

It's bad general who can't discriminate between the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. In March we didn't know where Covid was. Now we do.

People have limited resources. It doesn't make sense for people in the South West, or Eastern England or those towns and villages with very little infection to make the same sacrifices as people in cities like Manchester and Liverpool. You want everyone to share the misery?
Click to expand...
If there was a guarantee that people in local lockdown areas would adhere and stay put, then you may have an argument.

However, evidence suggests people aren't as inclined to do so, so how would you address that critical element?
 
Marvin said:
There's no uniformity of opinion and this is more a matter of logistics.

This is a war. The science produces the tests, medicine and the vaccines whilst the generals conduct the war.

It's bad general who can't discriminate between the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. In March we didn't know where Covid was. Now we do.

People have limited resources. It doesn't make sense for people in the South West, or Eastern England or those towns and villages with very little infection to make the same sacrifices as people in cities like Manchester and Liverpool. You want everyone to share the misery?
Click to expand...

Exactly, if it’s a low risk area keep the economy open. Talk of a circuit breaker is a bit too late to make a difference now the horse has bolted, something Peston of all people said last night which sounded about right is if you go into lockdown it’s pretty difficult to come back out of it. Three weeks in March turned into over twelve? Now we have a government making it up as they go along and completely on the back foot, they should have used the summer to prepare but instead Boris fucked off to Scotland.
 
Marvin said:
There's no uniformity of opinion and this is more a matter of logistics.

This is a war. The science produces the tests, medicine and the vaccines whilst the generals conduct the war.

It's bad general who can't discriminate between the strengths and weaknesses of his opponent. In March we didn't know where Covid was. Now we do.

People have limited resources. It doesn't make sense for people in the South West, or Eastern England or those towns and villages with very little infection to make the same sacrifices as people in cities like Manchester and Liverpool. You want everyone to share the misery?
Click to expand...
The SAGE scientists advising the government want a circuit breaker. What qualifications do you have to call that ridiculous?
 
andyhinch said:
Someone kept saying there would be no second wave @bluejon ? He’s gone quiet
Click to expand...
I've sacked off coming on this thread as it's a complete waste of time and I was starting to get abuse off posters. And what is going on right now is completely in line with what i was expecting. I never said numbers wouldn't rise, you'd be an idiot to think that wouldn't happen with Autumn coming, flu season etc. I said I didn't think it would be as bad as the first wave, which so far it isn't. I hope it stays that way. But I am done with posting on this thread. It makes the brexit thread look sane!
 
Last edited:
Marvin said:
Talk of a national lockdown, or circuit breaker, call it what you will, is completely ridiculous.

According to the Gov.uk site we have a testing capacity of 350,000 tests per day. We have a map of clusters all over the UK, and there are some regions which have detected virus levels at 700 per 100,000 whilst other areas have less than 70 per 100,000.

I am not against lockdowns per se when the spike is in your face but we should use our resources carefully and be smart about this. Politicians even now are incredibly opportunistic. In fact most of Western government has failed. Look at the US political system. Look at the WHO. Completely inept. They should be trialing the vaccines instead of leaving it to national states like Russia and China that we do not understand/trust.
Click to expand...
The one big failing of public policy is they haven't acclimatised the public to these lockdowns because of poor and chaotic planning. If there were well thought out support packages in place and we were all clear well in advance when a lockdown was needed along with what to do then it would be extremely effective.

For example, the government I believe has done the right thing in developing this tier system but they have done it too late and the idea of imposing tier changes with less than 24 hours notice is utterly ridiculous. What they should do is agree to put areas on a 3-5 day notice of a tier change, outline the support available, communicate the rules and most important, give the criteria for exit. You obviously can't do this though when you only created the system a couple of days ago!

It has to be asked what has the government been doing for the last 4 months? We all knew a second wave would come, so why has this tier system been created and announced on the same day an area was pushed into the worst tier? They should of announced this 2 months ago back when no area would of fitted in any tier, that might of even helped fight the virus whilst counties moved into the medium tiers.

The current state of affairs just can't continue. We can't have an imminent lockdown announced by a rumour on Twitter as was the case for Manchester/Lancashire last night. There are many scared people out there, they have no help and from tonight their businesses might be shut or who knows?? It's an utter shambles.
 
everythingchangesbutblue said:
So you are saying that you know better than the scientists then?
Click to expand...

everythingchangesbutblue said:
The SAGE scientists advising the government want a circuit breaker. What qualifications do you have to call that ridiculous?
Click to expand...
I am a scientist. It's a blurred area between science and government but ultimately a decision to go into lockdown is the responsibility of an elected government.

It's clearly absurd for some town in Dartmoor or the Scottish glens to be taking the same approach as Belfast, or Liverpool. In March and April we had to go into lockdown because we didn't have the testing capacity to find out where the virus was. Now we can test up to 350,000 people a day, and it will shortly be 500,000 a day. We can find out where the clusters are and that's where the isolation should be. I have nothing against lockdowns, circuit-breakers, call it what you will but we should be using our knowledge and not draining people who are at lower risk.
 
Marvin said:
I am a scientist. It's a blurred area between science and government but ultimately a decision to go into lockdown is the responsibility of an elected government.

It's clearly absurd for some town in Dartmoor or the Scottish glens to be taking the same approach as Belfast, or Liverpool. In March and April we had to go into lockdown because we didn't have the testing capacity to find out where the virus was. Now we can test up to 350,000 people a day, and it will shortly be 500,000 a day. We can find out where the clusters are and that's where the isolation should be. I have nothing against lockdowns, circuit-breakers, call it what you will but we should be using our knowledge and not draining people who are at lower risk.
Click to expand...
So in answer to my question you have no qualifications to call the findings of SAGE "ridiculous" whatsoever but you do so anyway. Got it.
 
mosssideblue said:
If there was a guarantee that people in local lockdown areas would adhere and stay put, then you may have an argument.

However, evidence suggests people aren't as inclined to do so, so how would you address that critical element?
Click to expand...

Short of martial law and control you are relying on people's willingness to conform. If you treat all areas as equal risk it will be harder to administer.
 
Marvin said:
I am a scientist. It's a blurred area between science and government but ultimately a decision to go into lockdown is the responsibility of an elected government.

It's clearly absurd for some town in Dartmoor or the Scottish glens to be taking the same approach as Belfast, or Liverpool. In March and April we had to go into lockdown because we didn't have the testing capacity to find out where the virus was. Now we can test up to 350,000 people a day, and it will shortly be 500,000 a day. We can find out where the clusters are and that's where the isolation should be. I have nothing against lockdowns, circuit-breakers, call it what you will but we should be using our knowledge and not draining people who are at lower risk.
Click to expand...
Just remind us what your field of speciality is please
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top