Keir Starmer

Bigga said:
Wait, so when Corbyn HIMSELF, says he's been fighting all forms of racism his entire life, he's lying?

Okay then...
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Sometimes it’s difficult to see the faults in ourselves. The impression Corbyn gave is that of a man paying lip service to the fight against anti-semitism, rather than a man who genuinely felt that fight.

At the very least it was a failure of political leadership to tackle this issue, it was almost as if the issue disinterested him. Even now it seems it’s more about him than anti-semitism. The thinking seems to be “I’m Jeremy Corbyn, life long fighter of racism, how dare anyone think I’m anti-Semitic. It’s impossible”. Perhaps a little humility or self reflection would have been better.
 
kaz7 said:
You have to be on the inside to effect change , he is leader and he has reacted straight away
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So being on the front bench means you are outside? He’s the master of hindsight from what I’ve seen and heard so far.. if that’s going to win Labour the next election then that’s great
 
Ric said:
He didn't say "absolutely fuck all" though, did he?
www.theguardian.com

Keir Starmer calls for tougher Labour rules to expel antisemitic members

Brexit spokesman says he is frustrated by party regulations after shadow cabinet row
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
www.theguardian.com

Labour needs exclusion rule for antisemitism, says Keir Starmer

Decisive action is required – and denial is part of the problem, says shadow Brexit sercretary
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Seems to be a desperation from some on the right to tar him with the same brush as Corbyn, despite him taking clear steps to address the problem now that he is in a position to do so.
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I’m really non plussed about KS.. why, because I don’t think he has what it takes to win the next GE.. he’s the archetypal Grey Man .
 
Bigga said:
Absolutely fucking brilliant!! I'm where he is having been accused of antisemitism, myself. He supports Corbyn as much as I do.

He totally gets what it's all about that many 'do-gooders' don't.

People have been duped into manufactured choices by the neolibs and are told 'well, these are the people left to vote for' aided and abetted by the MSM owed by the 1%/ 'establishment'. I've said it the US politics thread as well as the UK threads.

I really REALLY wish people would wake up.
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Whether Corbyn is antisemitic, whether Rascal is antisemitic, is really not the point here. I'm absolutely fucking sick of seeing people on here and general social media saying that the right wing and MSM "weaponising" antisemitism has destroyed the Labour party, or it's only a few people among a large membership.

Not one of these people demonstrates any genuine empathy for the victims of antisemitism in the party. Not one recognises the damage that has been done by even allowing one incident to go unpunished. It's clear from the EHRC report that Corbyn's office interfered in some cases, which were not seen as expedient to pursue because they were seen as Corbyn allies.

The real victims of this are Jews and their allies in the party, some of whom suffered appalling abuse, adversely affecting their mental health and forcing them out of their jobs.

I wish you and your fellow travellers would fucking wake up.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Whether Corbyn is antisemitic, whether Rascal is antisemitic, is really not the point here. I'm absolutely fucking sick of seeing people on here and general social media saying that the right wing and MSM "weaponising" antisemitism has destroyed the Labour party, or it's only a few people among a large membership.

Not one of these people demonstrates any genuine empathy for the victims of antisemitism in the party. Not one recognises the damage that has been done by even allowing one incident to go unpunished. It's clear from the EHRC report that Corbyn's office interfered in some cases, which were not seen as expedient to pursue because they were seen as Corbyn allies.

The real victims of this are Jews and their allies in the party, some of whom suffered appalling abuse, adversely affecting their mental health and forcing them out of their jobs.

I wish you and your fellow travellers would fucking wake up.
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Was going to like this but one like didn't seem enough.
I worry that even Corbyn allies do not see his meely mouthed response yesterday as typifying the issue.
 
BobKowalski said:
Sometimes it’s difficult to see the faults in ourselves. The impression Corbyn gave is that of a man paying lip service to the fight against anti-semitism, rather than a man who genuinely felt that fight.

At the very least it was a failure of political leadership to tackle this issue, it was almost as if the issue disinterested him. Even now it seems it’s more about him than anti-semitism. The thinking seems to be “I’m Jeremy Corbyn, life long fighter of racism, how dare anyone think I’m anti-Semitic. It’s impossible”. Perhaps a little humility or self reflection would have been better.
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So the report on his commission to tackle antisemitism which, according to data, was more affective than reported, means nothing...? I'm assuming you've had a quick look at that report, even through the posted vid content?

If not, I'm pretty surprised at your PoV if it's based on assumption.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Whether Corbyn is antisemitic, whether Rascal is antisemitic, is really not the point here. I'm absolutely fucking sick of seeing people on here and general social media saying that the right wing and MSM "weaponising" antisemitism has destroyed the Labour party, or it's only a few people among a large membership.

Not one of these people demonstrates any genuine empathy for the victims of antisemitism in the party. Not one recognises the damage that has been done by even allowing one incident to go unpunished. It's clear from the EHRC report that Corbyn's office interfered in some cases, which were not seen as expedient to pursue because they were seen as Corbyn allies.

The real victims of this are Jews and their allies in the party, some of whom suffered appalling abuse, adversely affecting their mental health and forcing them out of their jobs.

I wish you and your fellow travellers would fucking wake up.
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You give NO credit to Corbyn for making the processes quicker to deal with anti-semitic problems within the party? You'd have preferred the system to be left untouched and ignored before he got involved?

Or are you saying there were no issues beforehand? Corbyn has already regretted the slow process involved. I, also, don't know the ins and outs of 'involvement' of the commission about certain cases. It seems pretty complicated, so i can't offer an opinion on it.

And 'weaponising' the issue is true of the media. There are ALWAYS a little element of truth in anything to form a basis of attack. You know that to be true.

So, how does this person, a Nazi sympathiser, get to be celebrated by Starmer and co and yet you chastise Corbyn in his attempt to do something about the antsemitism problem?
astor.jpg


It makes for twisted logic on how and whom anyone supports if this is the case.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
So being on the front bench means you are outside? He’s the master of hindsight from what I’ve seen and heard so far.. if that’s going to win Labour the next election then that’s great
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why hindsight , if you mean covid he is following what sage are saying and we all knew the early issues at the time

i was saying in a round about way that if he had resigned he would have been forgotten, all the others have ,he stayed and has dealt withit from a position of strength
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Whether Corbyn is antisemitic, whether Rascal is antisemitic, is really not the point here. I'm absolutely fucking sick of seeing people on here and general social media saying that the right wing and MSM "weaponising" antisemitism has destroyed the Labour party, or it's only a few people among a large membership.

Not one of these people demonstrates any genuine empathy for the victims of antisemitism in the party. Not one recognises the damage that has been done by even allowing one incident to go unpunished. It's clear from the EHRC report that Corbyn's office interfered in some cases, which were not seen as expedient to pursue because they were seen as Corbyn allies.

The real victims of this are Jews and their allies in the party, some of whom suffered appalling abuse, adversely affecting their mental health and forcing them out of their jobs.

I wish you and your fellow travellers would fucking wake up.
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Here you go again denying the facts, it is only a few in percentage terms. One of whom was outed as a Tory troll. But you are trying to smear 500,000 members with the same antisemitism brush. You have done it with me and you continue doing it because you are ignoring the facts in the report.

Nobody is saying it doesn't exist, nobody is saying Labour handled the situation well , because it didn't. The report says that and it is a fact. Whether it was weaponised or not by the MSM it certainly got a lot of coverage, perhaps disproportionatly in terms of other issues that I consider of equal importance. Because I am against all discrimination against all groups.

You are assuming because I look at the facts I have no empathy for those people who did suffer abuse, but yesterday you said you know I am an empathetic person and I believe I am too because I do have empathy for those who were marginalised, abused and pushed out of the party, but I also have empathy for those who have been in my opinion wrongly portrayed as antisemitic. You have zero empathy for those who have been portrayed as antisemitic without proof. So you are in fact the one showing he is lacking in empathy here. You did it yesterday and you are doing it again today.

Do you believe the CAA have weaponised this whole debate? Have you seen the list of accusations they have made. Do you have no empathy for those who have been life long antiracists who are now being portrayed as racist. Because you have none for me and you know in your heart I am not antisemitic. To be fair I do get why this is an emotional subject for you, I understand why your feelings run high because of the antisemitic abuse that has been dished out but you are now doing the same as was done towards you and those of your background.
 
Rascal said:
Here you go again denying the facts, it is only a few in percentage terms. One of whom was outed as a Tory troll. But you are trying to smear 500,000 members with the same antisemitism brush. You have done it with me and you continue doing it because you are ignoring the facts in the report.

Nobody is saying it doesn't exist, nobody is saying Labour handled the situation well , because it didn't. The report says that and it is a fact. Whether it was weaponised or not by the MSM it certainly got a lot of coverage, perhaps disproportionatly in terms of other issues that I consider of equal importance. Because I am against all discrimination against all groups.

You are assuming because I look at the facts I have no empathy for those people who did suffer abuse, but yesterday you said you know I am an empathetic person and I believe I am too because I do have empathy for those who were marginalised, abused and pushed out of the party, but I also have empathy for those who have been in my opinion wrongly portrayed as antisemitic. You have zero empathy for those who have been portrayed as antisemitic without proof. So you are in fact the one showing he is lacking in empathy here. You did it yesterday and you are doing it again today.

Do you believe the CAA have weaponised this whole debate? Have you seen the list of accusations they have made. Do you have no empathy for those who have been life long antiracists who are now being portrayed as racist. Because you have none for me and you know in your heart I am not antisemitic. To be fair I do get why this is an emotional subject for you, I understand why your feelings run high because of the antisemitic abuse that has been dished out but you are now doing the same as was done towards you and those of your background.
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It doesn't make it OK that it was "only a few in percentage terms". That doesn't demonstrate empathy. And I've said here previously that some of the kick-back against antisemitism was overly hysterical and didn't help.

Listening to the radio when I was out at lunchtime in the car. And someone said pretty well what I said yesterday, which is that the smart move from Corbyn would have been to hold his hands up, say he accepted the report and that, while he'd tried to improve the process, he had to take some responsibility for the situation and showed some empathy for the victims. Then finish off by saying that there would hopefully be a robust process in place by the December 10th deadline. Then it all goes away and the media have nothing to write about.

Yet he effectively went on the offensive, encouraging his cult members like McCluskey to do likewise. The interviewee said that he reckoned Corbyn had deliberately done that to force a fight. So how does that help the party he's been a member of all his life? All it does it show that he's more interested in self-justification than putting party interest first.
 
Labour leads the polls for the first time - by 5 points (!), a day after suspending Corbyn from the party.

The same happened when he ousted Long-Bailey and looks like the same's happening again with Jezza.

I can't see a way back for him, and suspect Starmer will be picking a fight with plenty more on the so-called left of the party.
 
Fame Monster said:
Labour leads the polls for the first time - by 5 points (!), a day after suspending Corbyn from the party.

The same happened when he ousted Long-Bailey and looks like the same's happening again with Jezza.

I can't see a way back for him, and suspect Starmer will be picking a fight with plenty more on the so-called left of the party.
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The poll closed 2 days ago. Nothing to do with Corbyn. More to do with the free meals situation.

Be interesting to see what they're like with yesterday included, probably no different imo.
 
Fame Monster said:
Labour leads the polls for the first time - by 5 points (!), a day after suspending Corbyn from the party.

The same happened when he ousted Long-Bailey and looks like the same's happening again with Jezza.

I can't see a way back for him, and suspect Starmer will be picking a fight with plenty more on the so-called left of the party.
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The last few ywars we have seen labour jump up whwn the tories have done something pretty twattish .

This is from the westminster voting intentions thread last year just before May resigned when they were getting hammered by the press.

urban genie said:





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Not saying labour will drop again in the polls as noody knows that for sure, but I have come to trust pills a lot less over the last decade while most opinion has been led by popularism over policy.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
It doesn't make it OK that it was "only a few in percentage terms". That doesn't demonstrate empathy. And I've said here previously that some of the kick-back against antisemitism was overly hysterical and didn't help.

Listening to the radio when I was out at lunchtime in the car. And someone said pretty well what I said yesterday, which is that the smart move from Corbyn would have been to hold his hands up, say he accepted the report and that, while he'd tried to improve the process, he had to take some responsibility for the situation and showed some empathy for the victims. Then finish off by saying that there would hopefully be a robust process in place by the December 10th deadline. Then it all goes away and the media have nothing to write about.

Yet he effectively went on the offensive, encouraging his cult members like McCluskey to do likewise. The interviewee said that he reckoned Corbyn had deliberately done that to force a fight. So how does that help the party he's been a member of all his life? All it does it show that he's more interested in self-justification than putting party interest first.
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Of course its never ok, 1 person is 1 too many, but the way it has been framed is it is the whole party, which is nonsense and whether you agree or not the MSM did fuel the notion that it was the whole party and it was rife. As I say 1 is 1 too many, but the tarring of every member as antisemitic is just plain wrong and was done for nefarious reasons. Again whether you agree or not it played a part in a much wider systematic attack against the Labour party helped by the enemy within who for Labour MPs feared Socialism more than Johnson. There is also a much wider context to the whole debate as well, that of course is Brexit. Labour had to be discredited as a political movement because it was deemed to be Pro-EU, I am absolutely 100% certain that if Labour had taken the Lexit position then the antisemitism allegations would have been barely mentioned in the MSM, of course that does not excuse the fact that antisemitism existed because it did and there is none and should never be any defence of those who carried out the antisemitic attacks.

The use of the word "cult" is also rife, it makes out that advocating for Socialism is akin to being a member of the Moonies, it is derogatory and atypical of the RW media's Macarthyite Stance against the left. That is another debate though and not to be confused with the issue at hand. The cult issue is I believe one reason why Corbyn did fight back and why he is being encouraged to fight back further and if need be take Starmer to court. He was undermined at every turn by the PLP despite him having the overwhelming backing of the membership. Corbyn though tried to include those who were against him, me personally I would have expelled them for acting against the memberships democratic decision. Whether his decision to do that is right or not it is supported by the left of the Labour party and whether you like Starmer or not his decision to expel Corbyn has split the party in the two, he has pitted what you refer to as the cultists but I would call Socialists against the Social Liberals and although throughout history the two factions have always had an uneasy relationship I really do think that this is the final straw and the party has to split and go its seperate ways because Socialism and Social liberalism are not compatible because as Brexit (yes Brexit again) has shown that the Pro EU Social liberals cannot forsee a future outside the Neo-liberal club and the Socialists see the future as being outside the neo-liberal club.

From a personal point of view I left the Labour party when Starmer got rid of RLB and he brought back the anti welfarist Reeves back into the fold. Labour has gone for me, its sad and it ended badly in a place I abhorred. The party of equality been found to be home to people who pushed discrimination is too much and I am convinced Starmer helped push that agenda so he could have the party for himself and his acolytes. I will not vote for Labour again whilst he remains leader and unless the CPGB stand in my constituency I cant see myself voting at all.
 
Rascal said:
Of course its never ok, 1 person is 1 too many, but the way it has been framed is it is the whole party, which is nonsense and whether you agree or not the MSM did fuel the notion that it was the whole party and it was rife. As I say 1 is 1 too many, but the tarring of every member as antisemitic is just plain wrong and was done for nefarious reasons. Again whether you agree or not it played a part in a much wider systematic attack against the Labour party helped by the enemy within who for Labour MPs feared Socialism more than Johnson. There is also a much wider context to the whole debate as well, that of course is Brexit. Labour had to be discredited as a political movement because it was deemed to be Pro-EU, I am absolutely 100% certain that if Labour had taken the Lexit position then the antisemitism allegations would have been barely mentioned in the MSM, of course that does not excuse the fact that antisemitism existed because it did and there is none and should never be any defence of those who carried out the antisemitic attacks.

The use of the word "cult" is also rife, it makes out that advocating for Socialism is akin to being a member of the Moonies, it is derogatory and atypical of the RW media's Macarthyite Stance against the left. That is another debate though and not to be confused with the issue at hand. The cult issue is I believe one reason why Corbyn did fight back and why he is being encouraged to fight back further and if need be take Starmer to court. He was undermined at every turn by the PLP despite him having the overwhelming backing of the membership. Corbyn though tried to include those who were against him, me personally I would have expelled them for acting against the memberships democratic decision. Whether his decision to do that is right or not it is supported by the left of the Labour party and whether you like Starmer or not his decision to expel Corbyn has split the party in the two, he has pitted what you refer to as the cultists but I would call Socialists against the Social Liberals and although throughout history the two factions have always had an uneasy relationship I really do think that this is the final straw and the party has to split and go its seperate ways because Socialism and Social liberalism are not compatible because as Brexit (yes Brexit again) has shown that the Pro EU Social liberals cannot forsee a future outside the Neo-liberal club and the Socialists see the future as being outside the neo-liberal club.

From a personal point of view I left the Labour party when Starmer got rid of RLB and he brought back the anti welfarist Reeves back into the fold. Labour has gone for me, its sad and it ended badly in a place I abhorred. The party of equality been found to be home to people who pushed discrimination is too much and I am convinced Starmer helped push that agenda so he could have the party for himself and his acolytes. I will not vote for Labour again whilst he remains leader and unless the CPGB stand in my constituency I cant see myself voting at all.
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Down the rabbit hole we go....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nts-of-antisemitic-messages-after-ehrc-report

Labour to investigate complaints of antisemitic messages after EHRC report
Crackdown amid reports of rise in social media posts prompts concerns from Corbyn allies....

"Corbyn was suspended for saying in his response to the EHRC report that while he accepted its recommendations, the problem of antisemitism in Labour had been “dramatically overstated for political reasons” by opponents and the media.

One issue yet to be determined is whether simply agreeing with, or repeating, this statement would amount to an offence"....

So, to agree with Corbyn makes one an anti-Semite, presumably the folk who've contributed to Corbyn's legal fund, which is fast approaching £400,000, are anti-Semites too.

Not long now before those who voted for him are accused of being anti-Semites.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Down the rabbit hole we go....

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nts-of-antisemitic-messages-after-ehrc-report

Labour to investigate complaints of antisemitic messages after EHRC report
Crackdown amid reports of rise in social media posts prompts concerns from Corbyn allies....

"Corbyn was suspended for saying in his response to the EHRC report that while he accepted its recommendations, the problem of antisemitism in Labour had been “dramatically overstated for political reasons” by opponents and the media.

One issue yet to be determined is whether simply agreeing with, or repeating, this statement would amount to an offence"....

So, to agree with Corbyn makes one an anti-Semite, presumably the folk who've contributed to Corbyn's legal fund, which is fast approaching £400,000, are anti-Semites too.

Not long now before those who voted for him are accused of being anti-Semites.
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Thought crime....
 
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