COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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hmm

www.spectator.co.uk

Landmark Danish study finds no significant effect for facemask wearers

Do face masks work? Earlier this year, the UK government decided that masks could play a significant role in stopping Covid-19 and made masks mandatory in a number of public places. But are these policies backed by the scientific evidence? Yesterday marked the publication of a long-delayed trial...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk
 
The hospital data is great news for the NW again today too.

England patients rose from 13, 565 to 13, 626 - only 61 up, Last Thursday it was 11990.

Ventilators up from 1228 to 1242, Was 1081 last Thursday.


But in the North West patients FELL from 3013 to 2983. It was 2954 last Thursday. So up just 29 in a week. Or just 1%.

Ventilators also FELL from 258 to 254. Last Thursday there were 261.
 
03 March 2002 said:
They are an individual choice, businesses have decided to follow the guidance and so if you choose not to, you simply can't enter their place of business. The same way you wouldn't be allowed in waving a sword around.

There are plenty of alternative options to get what you need in terms of basic survival. Anything else you're not entitled to.
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except so many places aren't even enforcing it for staff, let alone customers.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
hmm

www.spectator.co.uk

Landmark Danish study finds no significant effect for facemask wearers

Do face masks work? Earlier this year, the UK government decided that masks could play a significant role in stopping Covid-19 and made masks mandatory in a number of public places. But are these policies backed by the scientific evidence? Yesterday marked the publication of a long-delayed trial...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk
Click to expand...
Interesting , i have always been torn on masks , human behaviour says to me you dont think keeping your distance is needed, false sense of security if you like , i see that when i go to tesco . I wear one despite long covid asthma , in the summer it was so difficult , i could only manage about twenty mins then head back to the car . Until i am told otherwise i will keep wearing it
 
inbetween said:
Cases are currently falling, the government has the opportunity to prepare the groundwork for the run up and the christmas week to allow for christmas to be held relatively normally.

If they don't do this then many people will lose their jobs, billions will be lost from the economy however the end result will be that people will ignore the rules anyway and cases will still rise.

They need to facilitate through guidelines and rules how people can mitigate their risk to others. They should stipulate how to mitigate risk through prior self-isolation, place limits on how many households can gather and set the time period to a few days maximum (24th, 25th, 26th).

If cases are low enough then the effect this will have on new cases is irrelevant compared to the risk you currently face by going to work or your kids going to school from now until mid-December.
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You make many valid points , it’s all about the risk anybody is prepared to take . Just seems strange that people claiming how much they miss family and friends could be willingly participating in contributing to the death of those family and friends in January. Hopefully with the light at the end of the tunnel coming closer every day then missing out on a festive shindig is hardly a huge sacrifice. It’s a shit situation and choice that everyone faces .
 
BlueHammer85 said:
hmm

www.spectator.co.uk

Landmark Danish study finds no significant effect for facemask wearers

Do face masks work? Earlier this year, the UK government decided that masks could play a significant role in stopping Covid-19 and made masks mandatory in a number of public places. But are these policies backed by the scientific evidence? Yesterday marked the publication of a long-delayed trial...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk
Click to expand...
Read about the study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817)

It's pathetic. They literally listed variable adherence as a limitation of the study, as well as missing data and patient-reported findings on home test kits.

"Encouragement to follow social distancing measures for coronavirus disease 2019, plus either no mask recommendation or a recommendation to wear a mask when outside the home among other persons together with a supply of 50 surgical masks and instructions for proper use."

Come on this has as much integrity as a spaghetti skyscraper.
 
Other regions hospital data:

NE/Yorkshire patients down 53 but at 3344 well above the NW. And 319 up in the week. Ventilators fell from 249 to 247. But not far off the NW here either.

Midlands up 3039 - 3088 - a 520 rise in the week. And ventilators up to 281 so now well above the NW. And like NE/Yorkshire ahead of NW in patients too.

London patients rose 262 in the week to 1374. And ventilators up 39 in the week to 220.

But the South West is the area seeing big percentage rises. Patients up by 30% in the week to 934. And ventilators (in an area that had 0 for much of the summer months) up 11 in the week to 69.

Unfortunately this is now living up to the name pandemic by spreading into other areas as was inevitable.

But the NW can be thankful that for now the numbers are clearly going the other way.

Though that can change so we must not get complacent. And it may need national measures to keep this in check.
 
03 March 2002 said:
Read about the study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817)

It's pathetic. They literally listed variable adherence as a limitation of the study, as well as missing data and patient-reported findings on home test kits.

"Encouragement to follow social distancing measures for coronavirus disease 2019, plus either no mask recommendation or a recommendation to wear a mask when outside the home among other persons together with a supply of 50 surgical masks and instructions for proper use."

Come on this has as much integrity as a spaghetti skyscraper.
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The author of the study itself said people should still wear masks and it even concludes that the study should not be used to determine whether masks should be worn.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
It's comfortably the second worst today behind Cheesy, with hogwash about masks when everyone knows their importance and benefit and the danger posed by those in enclosed spaces who don't wear them.

Would have been more honest for them to just admit they're not a decent, responsible human being and be done with it.
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Just to clarify, I of course wouldn't wish anyone to die.

It was a badly written post by me.

But I stand by my amended post in which I said that if anyone was to die because of people selfishly gathering at Christmas, then I would rather it be one of those selfish individuals than anyone else.
 
marcus said:
Bugger off where? Sorry because i happen to not share your thoughts i have to leave? Leave the conversation ? The thread? The forum full stop. You and ilk arent in charge here.
If you dont like people disagreeing with you maybe forums aren't for you.
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I dunno, emigrate to Zimbabwe or something. There's nothing to disagree with.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
hmm

www.spectator.co.uk

Landmark Danish study finds no significant effect for facemask wearers

Do face masks work? Earlier this year, the UK government decided that masks could play a significant role in stopping Covid-19 and made masks mandatory in a number of public places. But are these policies backed by the scientific evidence? Yesterday marked the publication of a long-delayed trial...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk
Click to expand...
Note that the article is in the Spectator.

The study is powered to detect an efficacy of instructions to wear masks of 50%.

ie it would only be expected to show a positive result if the true effect of being told to wear a mask is to reduce transmission by at least50%.

Also note, it tested the effect of being advised to wear a mask - they don't know to what extent people in the study actually changed their behaviour and wore masks.

Now, though it didn't show a definitive positive result, you can look at the confidence intervals - the interval it's 95% likely to have reduced transmission by. That limit is -46% to +23%. That it's so wide is because it's a fairly small study. The point estimate is a reduction of 18%.

An honest headline would be something along the lines of "Advising people to wear masks probably reduces transmission, but by less than half". The actual headline is ignorant at best, mendacious at worst.

Excellent twitter thread from an actual epidemiologist here



Judge for yourself the honesty of the Spectator.
 
03 March 2002 said:
Read about the study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817)

It's pathetic. They literally listed variable adherence as a limitation of the study, as well as missing data and patient-reported findings on home test kits.

"Encouragement to follow social distancing measures for coronavirus disease 2019, plus either no mask recommendation or a recommendation to wear a mask when outside the home among other persons together with a supply of 50 surgical masks and instructions for proper use."

Come on this has as much integrity as a spaghetti skyscraper.
Click to expand...

The study seems fine to me.

The reporting in the right wing press, not so much.
 
Fingers in ears time again. Sort it out lads. There is a reality out there, and our actions and decisions have consequences. Adapt, or we face trouble down the line. Your attitude is YOUR responsibility.

It's time to stop pretending we can get away with doing whatever we want. No amount of rationalisation or shouting down the voices of others is going to change this one.

I know no-one wants to admit other people are right when they try to interfere, but there's times in life where it will save you a whole lot more unhappiness later on.

Let it go. Adapt. Use that brain of yours very gently to try and reduce the risks, rather than argue there aren't any, there's nothing we can do. Use it to support people in this hard time, rather than defend a losing position. You can do it. You've done it repeatedly to get this far in life. Don't stay stuck in a moment, forever.

Anyone see that Thatcher documentaries recently?

Wonder what she'd be doing. I reckon she'd be out there once a week, giving everyone a proper dressing down for not doing their bit.
 
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