Political relations between UK-EU

[dave_blue12]

The decision was petty, it was casual vandalism because no value is placed on a scheme like Erasmus, and if as a country we no longer value such a scheme then what does it say about this country.

You can actually ‘Brexit’ and do it in a way that doesn’t make it seem we are full of small minded arseholes. Unfortunately, or perhaps inevitably, we chose the small minded arseholes route.

We place no value on our links with Europe, we see no merit in the European project, we sustain ourselves on the notion that the European project, the Euro must and will fail. We have no vision of ourselves other than being opposed to a ‘doomed project’. It is an article of faith.

The question that remains, the unspoken fear for this country, is what if it doesn’t fail? And if it doesn’t fail, what does that say about our lack of imagination, our lack of vision?

Which brings me back to my original question. What is our vision? What does the UK want to do? What does it want to be?

Those who funded the Brexit project have far greater aims than just Brexit. They want the destruction of the EU nothing less.

As for the alternative to the EU it is a goal that cannot be spoken, at least by the politicians. Try listening to Bannon for a taste.

Interestingly I have noted echoes of this from certain posters on here.

 

[Vic]

You misunderstand my position. I'm not a little Englander Brexiteer. If there had been an option on the referendum ballot paper to leave the EU but remain in the single market, that's what I'd have happily voted for. I'm also not in favour of closing our borders completely. Had we done that a century or so ago, my mother might well have been shot or gassed by the Nazis in Eastern Europe as a young child. So I believe we should be generous in taking in genuine refugees.

Closing of the Erasmus scheme does not deprive people of the ability to study at foreign universities. My uncle, born and brought up in the Strangeways area, went to university in Switzerland 60 years ago, as did many of my contemporaries in the 1970's, particularly those doing languages.

The first modern restriction of immigration to Britain (1905 Aliens Act) was officially to prevent paupers or criminals from entering the country (and deport those who still made it), but the main driver behind it was to control Jewish immigration. And we didn't exactly put out a welcome mat for Jews fleeing the Nazis.

Does Britain’s focus on the Kindertransport hide a guilty conscience?

On December 2, the UK marks 80 years since the rescue of Jewish children from the Nazis, but the fate which befell some of those who made it to Britain is no cause for celebration

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[west didsblue]

You misunderstand my position. I'm not a little Englander Brexiteer. If there had been an option on the referendum ballot paper to leave the EU but remain in the single market, that's what I'd have happily voted for. I'm also not in favour of closing our borders completely. Had we done that a century or so ago, my mother might well have been shot or gassed by the Nazis in Eastern Europe as a young child. So I believe we should be generous in taking in genuine refugees.

Closing of the Erasmus scheme does not deprive people of the ability to study at foreign universities. My uncle, born and brought up in the Strangeways area, went to university in Switzerland 60 years ago, as did many of my contemporaries in the 1970's, particularly those doing languages.

As non-members of Schengen and the Eurozone what you wanted was not far from what we had. It was certainly closer than what we’ve got now.

 

[Vic]

But take Libya as an example of where they’re coming from; the EU has been criticised by other NATO countries in their lack of action when it comes to stabilising Libya. It seems Turkey are putting greater plans in action to help the plight of Libya when it’s the EU where these refugees are [eventually] coming to.

How's the stabilising of Iraq going? We did such a grand job there.

 

[Vic]

When you think of the amount of brownfield sites, derelict sites that could be renovated and built upon, but developers won't because of the costs, it renders the whole argument of developing on greenbelt land morally redundant, doesn't it.

It's no longer an argument about giving people places to live, it becomes about profitability and cost.

Welcome to the world of capitalism.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It's not the EU has caused those crises, it's been government policy, The EU didn't make us cut doctors, nurses, beds, police, libraries, youth clubs, etc etc etc etc etc.

 

[The perfect fumble]

This is going to be fun.....




https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

 

[Vic]

What about the point that the EU, as a whole, skews it’s immigration system in favour of those earning above £20,000, coming into the EU from elsewhere?

Please don't tell us that our new immigration policy is based on existing EU policy... Who knew?

 

[Ban-jani]

Please don't tell us that our new immigration policy is based on existing EU policy... Who knew?

I voted remain Vic, I still think Brexit was a mistake and I still wish we’d have stayed.

Why wouldn’t it be based on the EU’s policy to external immigration, outside of the bloc?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

View attachment 7473

But did the EU prevent any country doing that? If not then that's a complete red herring.

 

[Ban-jani]

This is going to be fun.....




https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

There’s always another side to the argument.

 

[Vic]

The development?

Yes, the development. I know the answer and it certainly isn't the EU that's been stopping us building on brownfield sites.

 

[Ban-jani]

Yes, the development. I know the answer and it certainly isn't the EU that's been stopping us building on brownfield sites.

I never said nor claimed it is.

All I’ve said is the government shouldn’t build anything on greenfield sites, when there’s plenty of options.

I think you’re mistaking me for someone who wanted Brexit.

 

[mcfc1632]

Which we can now change to suit us, rather than change to suit the EU whether it suits us or not, or not even be allowed to change because it doesn’t suit the EU.

Exactly - I asked previously what some posters would have felt about the UK position in 2021 with a new MFF being introduced and with the Covid recovery funding baked in with commitments to integration linked.

I would rather the position we have now - invest as, when and where we choose to drive recovery rather than transfer our funding to the EU and get some of it back to invest where they instruct and subject to 'conditions'

 

[hilts]

You live in a Union that has Freedom of Movement between four nations.

You don’t say:-)

 

[Vic]

But did the EU prevent any country doing that? If not then that's a complete red herring.

I think it started with immigration putting a strain on resources, but it's the resources that have been cut due to austerity (aka ideological) policies. So we can't blame the EU for Tory slash and burn policies (like the NHS STP programme - slash, trash and privatise).

 

[Vic]

I never said nor claimed it is.

All I’ve said is the government shouldn’t build anything on greenfield sites, when there’s plenty of options.

I think you’re mistaking me for someone who wanted Brexit.

It flows from the anti-FoM stuff. Immigration puts a strain on resources, erroneously extrapolated to more immgrants mean more lost countryside, then moves on to why not build on brownfield, but most brownfield sites have already been built on, and if they haven't - why not (for that particular site)? You're right though, unless people think new immigrants are buying a lot of new houses built on greenfield sites, it's not much to do with Brexit.

 

[hilts]

Hearing whispers that Spain now requires an annual income of £30,000 if you wish to apply for residency.... and your private health cover.



Lol

Fascists:-)

 

[Vic]

Exactly - I asked previously what some posters would have felt about the UK position in 2021 with a new MFF being introduced and with the Covid recovery funding baked in with commitments to integration linked.

I would rather the position we have now - invest as, when and where we choose to drive recovery rather than transfer our funding to the EU and get some of it back to invest where they instruct and subject to 'conditions'

What commitments to what integration?

 

[Ban-jani]

It flows from the anti-FoM stuff. Immigration puts a strain on resources, erroneously extrapolated to more immgrants mean more lost countryside, then moves on to why not build on brownfield, but most brownfield sites have already been built on, and if they haven't - why not (for that particular site)? You're right though, unless people think new immigrants are buying a lot of new houses built on greenfield sites, it's not much to do with Brexit.

Purely a population reason.

It might not be the immigrants buying on greenfield sites but If they buy in city centres and there’s a lack of housing there, it’ll need to spill out into the countryside and suddenly we’ll be forced to build on more and more greenfield sites.

It’s purely a numbers game imo and that’s one reason why I’m against FoM generally speaking.