Political relations between UK-EU

[Ban-jani]

I'm told they now accept PayPal

;)

Lol

 

[west didsblue]

For me - I have only recently posted what are, IMO, a couple of clearly truthful positions:

• the regular (previously known as) Remainers have been caught out (again) having gotten their doom and gloom predictions badly wrong - and are now struggling to portray the current scope of issues as the apocalypse that they predicted
• that the current scope of issues would have been greatly mitigated/reduced/avoided, if only the UK had a government in place during 2016-2019 that had been committed to the preparing for the UK to leave the SM and CU. So yeah - inconvenient perhaps, but clearly true - a lot of the fault for current issues sits with the Remainer led government of 2016-2019.

Of course pointing out my opinions - ones that I am particularly qualified and experienced enough to hold - is unwelcome to the those that dominate the thread and therefore must be shouted down rather than debated.

Re other Leavers not bothering?

Well, I am sure that Remainers will seek solace in the reasons that they invent for that, but I would suggest that it might be because the they have had 5 years of the same old same old daft predictions being proven wrong - and afterall - in 2021 - they can just be comfortable in having achieved an outcome beyond their best hopes.

And even now - when some potentially good news emerges re the Nissan situation - what do you get from the 'old guard' - convoluted attempts to place a negative slant on it.

No - it is more likely and simply, that you fellas have been wrong for so long, an not able to face up to that - and people probably have better things to do. People leaving you to your echo chamber should not be a surprise - and anyway, it is what you have always wanted.

And where’s the good news?
I’ve already mentioned Nissan not closing which is hardly a Brexit dividend. It’s not like Nissan was shutting and it was saved by Brexit.
Have you anything else other than bloviation?

 

[blueparrot]

And where’s the good news?
I’ve already mentioned Nissan not closing which is hardly a Brexit dividend. It’s not like Nissan was shutting and it was saved by Brexit.
Have you anything else other than bloviation?

It's a bit like teams struggling celebrate a corner. Any phew not as bad as it could have been moment is celebrated as positive and a goal.

 

[joe123]

Anyone who is still thinking in terms of being a remainer or brexitier are the ones holding the country back.

Quite pathetic really to try to find faults with every aspect of whats happening just to say "I told you so" or also to try to excuse the various problems and pass the blame.

There is no remaim or exit, what we have is the future, anyone still fighting the battles of 2016-2020 need to grow up and think about the country and not themselves.

It’s thinking about the country that’s prompting people to post how it isn’t going all that well so far.

 

[urban genie]

It’s thinking about the country that’s prompting people to post how it isn’t going all that well so far.

And of course people should point out thinks that are not going well, but the sneering and pompous attitude from both sides is pointless now, the referendum and us leaving is done, point scoring means fuck all.

That post about the cheese company is a good example, commemt saskig if they voted to leave loaded that if the answer is yes (it isn't they voted remain) then they get what they deserve are really childish, so is brexitiers trying to blame european red tape while ignoring the UK is jointly to blame.

Their is no remain/leave battle to be fought, only a "what happens next" mentality which should come from a unified mindset.

 

[BobKowalski]

These are my local independent cheese makers, they do a very nice Cheshire and their Black Bob extra mature is also good.

I’ll have to order some. Pitch in and help out :)

Apparently, they will be opening a production facility in France.

They are also pissed that a lot of checks and procedures are not applying to imports into the UK as we are currently prioritising trade flow over revenue (understandably), so it’s a bit of an uneven playing field, which is kind of ironic given the fuss we made during negotiations.

 

[Ban-jani]

And of course people should point out thinks that are not going well, but the sneering and pompous attitude from both sides is pointless now, the referendum and us leaving is done, point scoring means fuck all.

That post about the cheese company is a good example, commemt saskig if they voted to leave loaded that if the answer is yes (it isn't they voted remain) then they get what they deserve are really childish, so is brexitiers trying to blame european red tape while ignoring the UK is jointly to blame.

Their is no remain/leave battle to be fought, only a "what happens next" mentality which should come from a unified mindset.

Two very good posts on the last two pages.

There are clearly negatives but I see no benefit in scrolling the internet to find cafes or small businesses complaining about the odd thing here or there.

Sure, it’s sad for people when business is affected but the economy is doing fine (Covid apart) and the vast majority of industry has just carried on.

Point scoring now is pointless and because it’s not been that bad but also hasn’t been good either, nobody is going to win the argument even now.

If 0 is Mad Max style dystopia and 10 is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, with 5 being exactly the same as pre Brexit, I genuinely think we’re at 4 now. Nobody was going to win the argument if it was between 4 and 6 on this imaginary scale.

 

[west didsblue]

Two very good posts on the last two pages.

There are clearly negatives but I see no benefit in scrolling the internet to find cafes or small businesses complaining about the odd thing here or there.

Sure, it’s sad for people when business is affected but the economy is doing fine (Covid apart) and the vast majority of industry has just carried on.

Point scoring now is pointless and because it’s not been that bad but also hasn’t been good either, nobody is going to win the argument even now.

If 0 is Mad Max style dystopia and 10 is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, with 5 being exactly the same as pre Brexit, I genuinely think we’re at 4 now. Nobody was going to win the argument if it was between 4 and 6 on this imaginary scale.

So in summary it’s just a bit shit like we all thought it would be.
I just want to see some tangible benefits. Have you seen any?

 

[BobKowalski]

And of course people should point out thinks that are not going well, but the sneering and pompous attitude from both sides is pointless now, the referendum and us leaving is done, point scoring means fuck all.

That post about the cheese company is a good example, commemt saskig if they voted to leave loaded that if the answer is yes (it isn't they voted remain) then they get what they deserve are really childish, so is brexitiers trying to blame european red tape while ignoring the UK is jointly to blame.

Their is no remain/leave battle to be fought, only a "what happens next" mentality which should come from a unified mindset.

There is no ‘unified mindset‘. The country has been divided since day one. We had an MP murdered over it.

Right now, the deal is better than no deal, but it’s still a shit deal for the UK. You know when a deal is shit when the man who gave it the okay openly lies about it in the first five minutes. “There are no barriers to trade with this deal”. This is the same man who said there could be no division in our Union and promptly divided the UK with the Withdrawal Agreement.

So, what exactly are we ‘unifying’ over? This deal is just the start point for years of negotiations with the the EU, there are endless battles still to be fought.

We’ve only just started.

 

[Ban-jani]

So in summary it’s just a bit shit like we all thought it would be.
I just want to see some tangible benefits. Have you seen any?

Not immediately but our immigration policy is now far better and English Common law is no longer at loggerheads with the European model of the legislature pushing down law.

 

[Ban-jani]

There is no ‘unified mindset‘. The country has been divided since day one. We had an MP murdered over it.

I am not sure using the death as Cox in this context is relevant or the right thing to do.

 

[urban genie]

There is no ‘unified mindset‘. The country has been divided since day one. We had an MP murdered over it.

Right now, the deal is better than no deal, but it’s still a shit deal for the UK. You know when a deal is shit when the man who gave it the okay openly lies about it in the first five minutes. “There are no barriers to trade with this deal”. This is the same man who said there could be no division in our Union and promptly divided the UK with the Withdrawal Agreement.

So, what exactly are we ‘unifying’ over? This deal is just the start point for years of negotiations with the the EU, there are endless battles still to be fought.

We’ve only just started.

Of course we have only just started, and there is issues to be argued over.

Trying to find out which way businesses voted and then crowing and pontificating at said businesses that are suffering because of this though is not the way, to resolve those issues.

Niether is the bullshit stance we are great and it is everyone else fault but ours.

Reaminers are using the wrong arguements and leavers the wrong excuses.

We need to hold our hands up and admit we have rushed this through when an extention was available and should have been used and accept we won't always get our way, but also admit we ain't going back in so stop whining about it and help find the solutions ratger than look for for points to score about our failures

 

[west didsblue]

Not immediately but our immigration policy is now far better and English Common law is no longer at loggerheads with the European model of the legislature pushing down law.

So nothing tangible that anyone would notice.

 

[Ban-jani]

So nothing tangible that anyone would notice.

Neither are the negatives for the vast majority.

But yeah, the immigration policy of the next few years will see significant difference to what would have been.

 

[jaseirai]

Where have all the Brexiteers gone? We need some positive news to demonstrate why it’s all been worthwhile. The best we’ve had so far is that Nissan might not shut down after all. Everything else has been a bit grim. For example small businesses unable to import or export without huge costs, empty shelves in NI, various problems for expats and people with second homes, finding out that the fishing and livestock industries are fucked and large amounts of financial trading moving away from London. There’s got to be some benefits surely.

Oh yes, forgot about the good news about Gibraltars’s border coming down allowing free movement with the EU although it is slightly tempered by the fact that EU officials will be checking passports of people flying in from the UK.

Too busy listing all these pallets of spam on eBay at the moment. It's £1 final value fees again.

 

[BobKowalski]

I am not sure using the death as Cox in this context is relevant or the right thing to do.

Well, we could pretend it didn’t happen if you like. Pretending things aren’t happening seems to be the general thrust of your argument.

 

[BobKowalski]

Of course we have only just started, and there is issues to be argued over.

Trying to find out which way businesses voted and then crowing and pontificating at said businesses that are suffering because of this though is not the way, to resolve those issues.

Niether is the bullshit stance we are great and it is everyone else fault but ours.

Reaminers are using the wrong arguements and leavers the wrong excuses.

We need to hold pur hands up and admit we have rushed this through when an extention was available and should have been used and accept we won't always get our way, but also admit we ain't going back in so stop whining about it and help find the solutions ratger than look for for points to score about our failures

Fair enough, although the fact we seem locked into these mindsets doesn’t bode well for the future.

Personally, I think there are too many lies and denying of reality for us to ever ‘unify’, nor do I think is there a willingness to do so by factions on both sides. I think the majority wish it would just go away, but it never will. Our relationship with Europe and the EU will continue to define our politics, because there will always be something that comes up, be it fish, cheese or being asked to pay another £50 quid on a product someone ordered.

The problem with erecting trade and cultural barriers is that these barriers are always going to cause grief to some sector of the population, and grief is newsworthy.

 

[west didsblue]

Neither are the negatives for the vast majority.

But yeah, the immigration policy of the next few years will see significant difference to what would have been.

I’ll get back to you in 5 years about immigration.
As for common law being at loggerheads, I’ve no idea what that even means. Maybe you could suggest one way that will positively impact our daily lives.

 

[west didsblue]

Seems we’re at the point where the Brexit fans are past trying to tell us about benefits and they’re up to the point where they’re just pointing out how churlish people are for reminding them of all the drawbacks that were widely predicted becoming reality.

 

[Ban-jani]

Well, we could pretend it didn’t happen if you like. Pretending things aren’t happening seems to be the general thrust of your argument.

I don’t want to pretend anything but she was murdered by a far right extremist for being specifically socially liberal, not because of her Brexit stance.

She could have been Labour leave and still harboured her social views and the cretin would have still wanted to murder her.

It’s also a single tragic event, rather than a sign of the times.

The majority of people are well over Brexit now.