Political relations between UK-EU

[meltonblue]

If I'm reading this right and I believe I am, the EU is in the right.

If AstraZeneca has production problems and therefore cannot fulfil its contractual obligations to all parties, The EU is within its rights to expect that all parties take a hit.

Oh, by the way, this is very much about Brexit.

Yeah, you can see why they wanted to publish the contract.

 

[metalblue]

They did, it’s in the contract that AZ were not under any obligation to anyone else that could impact on them fulfilling the order for the EU.

That is the breach they’re arguing - AZ can’t give the reason they have as justification for the delay.

13.1.e? How does AZ’s contractual obligation to UK impede their ability to fulfil the contract with the EU exactly? Just because the UK is deemed as an acceptable site of manufacture and that they would be happy to receive vaccines from there? I’d like to see that successfully prosecuted in a court of law

 

[meltonblue]

13.1.e? How does AZ’s contractual obligation to UK impede their ability to fulfil the contract with the EU exactly? Just because the UK is deemed as an acceptable site of manufacture and that they would be happy to receive vaccines from there? I’d like to see that successfully prosecuted in a court of law

Because AZ said some of the shortfall is due to vaccines prioritised for the U.K.

 

[Vic]

13.1.e? How does AZ’s contractual obligation to UK impede their ability to fulfil the contract with the EU exactly? Just because the UK is deemed as an acceptable site of manufacture and that they would be happy to receive vaccines from there? I’d like to see that successfully prosecuted in a court of law

13.1(e) warrants that there isn't a competing contract.

The anti-EU people might reflect that without the EU's upfront money for the research, no-one might yet have the AZ vaccine.

 

[BobKowalski]

13.1.e? How does AZ’s contractual obligation to UK impede their ability to fulfil the contract with the EU exactly? Just because the UK is deemed as an acceptable site of manufacture and that they would be happy to receive vaccines from there? I’d like to see that successfully prosecuted in a court of law

No one is going to court, except the court of public opinion in Europe where AZ are going to get hammered. It also explains why the CEO of AZ was talking to the media and getting his side of the story in first.

AZ were trying to service two separate contracts that partially cut across each other and have come unstuck.

More importantly, is resolving this issue going forward, which may involve three parties, UK, EU, and AZ getting around the table and thrashing something out (assuming the EU authorise the AZ vaccine).

 

[meltonblue]

No one is going to court, except the court of public opinion in Europe where AZ are going to get hammered. It also explains why the CEO of AZ was talking to the media and getting his side of the story in first.

AZ were trying to service two separate contracts that partially cut across each other and have come unstuck.

More importantly, is resolving this issue going forward, which may involve three parties, UK, EU, and AZ getting around the table and thrashing something out (assuming the EU authorise the AZ vaccine).

Yep, going to be a lot of behind closed doors conversations going on.

 

[Ban-jani]

No one is going to court, except the court of public opinion in Europe where AZ are going to get hammered. It also explains why the CEO of AZ was talking to the media and getting his side of the story in first.

AZ were trying to service two separate contracts that partially cut across each other and have come unstuck.

More importantly, is resolving this issue going forward, which may involve three parties, UK, EU, and AZ getting around the table and thrashing something out (assuming the EU authorise the AZ vaccine).

if you genuinely think AZ are going to come out of this worse than the EU leadership, by the public, then I’m not sure you’re going to be persuaded on anything.

If I was a German citizen now and I watched the EU delay for 3 months whilst the UK got on with it, and now this contract dispute which has shown them to have been talking absolute shite on the “best endeavour” point, I’d be livid with them, over the manufacturer struggling to now meet demand.

When I said you are in a cult yesterday I meant it, there’s zero objectivity and your judgment is clouded by a hatred for the UK and love for anyone who opposes them.

 

[journolud]

No one is going to court, except the court of public opinion in Europe where AZ are going to get hammered. It also explains why the CEO of AZ was talking to the media and getting his side of the story in first.

AZ were trying to service two separate contracts that partially cut across each other and have come unstuck.

More importantly, is resolving this issue going forward, which may involve three parties, UK, EU, and AZ getting around the table and thrashing something out (assuming the EU authorise the AZ vaccine).

Well the UK and the EU have form for being able to swiftly conclude discussions, another party round the table shouldn’t hinder matters much

 

[metalblue]

Because AZ said some of the shortfall is due to vaccines prioritised for the U.K.

In what way can that be argued as competing when the contracts were signed?

It’s only being suggested as “competing” now because the EU manufacturing facilities are behind schedule. Were these delays foreseen? Good luck proving that one in court

 

[Vic]

if you genuinely think AZ are going to come out of this worse than the EU leadership, by the public, then I’m not sure you’re going to be persuaded on anything.

If I was a German citizen now and I watched the EU delay for 3 months whilst the UK got on with it, and now this contract dispute which has shown them to have been talking absolute shite on the “best endeavour” point, I’d be livid with them, over the manufacturer struggling to now meet demand.

When I said you are in a cult yesterday I meant it, there’s zero objectivity and your judgment is clouded by a hatred for the UK and love for anyone who opposes them.

Back in the real world, the UK had a commitment with AZ to get the first 30m doses (with a £65m research grant). The EU stumped up five times that for 300m doses.

 

[Ban-jani]

Back in the real world, the UK had a commitment with AZ to get the first 30m doses (with a £65m research grant). The EU stumped up five times that for 300m doses.

Back in the real world, you do understand the difference in populations don’t you?

 

[BobKowalski]

if you genuinely think AZ are going to come out of this worse than the EU leadership, by the public, then I’m not sure you’re going to be persuaded on anything.

If I was a German citizen now and I watched the EU delay for 3 months whilst the UK got on with it, and now this contract dispute which has shown them to have been talking absolute shite on the “best endeavour” point, I’d be livid with them, over the manufacturer struggling to now meet demand.

When I said you are in a cult yesterday I meant it, there’s zero objectivity and your judgment is clouded by a hatred for the UK and love for anyone who opposes them.

The EU weren’t ‘talking shite’ as has been pointed out by several other posters who are not having a three day melt over the issue.

No one has absolved the EU of responsibility on this matter or over the vaccine rollout and at no fucking point have I, or anyone as far as I am aware, pointed the finger of blame at the UK, so do everyone a favour and get your facts straight before posting.

 

[meltonblue]

In what way can that be argued as competing when the contracts were signed?

It’s only being suggested as “competing” now because the EU manufacturing facilities are behind schedule. Were these delays foreseen? Good luck proving that one in court

Theres no differentiation between the EU manufacturing sites and the U.K. sites, they’re one and the same. That’s not the point though.

If there’s a shortfall in production that’s fine, Pfizer had that too. They cut it for all their customer base though. If AZ also say there’s a shortfall because vaccines are already prioritised for a different customer, then that’s not a reasonable excuse for breaching it as per their own stipulation.

 

[The perfect fumble]

In what way can that be argued as competing when the contracts were signed?

It’s only being suggested as “competing” now because the EU manufacturing facilities are behind schedule. Were these delays foreseen? Good luck proving that one in court

It doesn't matter, in court or out of court.

AstraZeneca signed the contract, not its individual facilities. The location of any production problems within AstraZeneca are material only to AstraZenica, they are immaterial to the folk they are contractually obliged to supply.

 

[metalblue]

Theres no differentiation between the EU manufacturing sites and the U.K. sites, they’re one and the same. That’s not the point though.

If there’s a shortfall in production that’s fine, Pfizer had that too. They cut it for all their customer base though. If AZ also say there’s a shortfall because vaccines are already prioritised for a different customer, then that’s not a reasonable excuse for breaching it as per their own stipulation.

They aren’t one and the same. The EU contracted for output from EU based facilities, non-EU facilities needed to be approved, except in the case of UK which was deeemed acceptable.

None of that explains why they can be considered competing agreements

 

[metalblue]

It doesn't matter, in court or out of court.

AstraZeneca signed the contract, not its individual facilities. The location of any production problems within AstraZeneca are material only to AstraZenica, they are immaterial to the folk they are contractually obliged to supply.

Not when production location is explicit to the contract between the EU and AZ it isn’t - else they could argue for the US output as well...but they aren’t are they?

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

They aren’t one and the same. The EU contracted for output from EU based facilities, non-EU facilities needed to be approved, except in the case of UK which was deeemed acceptable.

None of that explains why they can be considered competing agreements

metalblue vs meltonblue - it's hard to follow!

 

[The perfect fumble]

Where's MCFC1632? We need him to lecture us on the art of the deal.

 

[metalblue]

metalblue vs meltonblue - it's hard to follow!

Honestly mate confuses me as well!! half the time I read meltons posts as my own ;)

 

[meltonblue]

They aren’t one and the same. The EU contracted for output from EU based facilities, non-EU facilities needed to be approved, except in the case of UK which was deeemed acceptable.

None of that explains why they can be considered competing agreements

UK sites class as EU, not just being deemed as acceptable.