Political relations between UK-EU

[BobKowalski]

Was the German Gov who funded a lot of the Biontech Vaccine Research

When it got approved here and doses were being shipped, German Gov was kicking off royally that they didn’t have approval from the EMA.

This one wasn’t done at cost though and EU procurement were more interested in getting a good price and indemnity rather than priority guarantees which presumably would have driven the prices up.

Agree there was too much focus on pricing, it was a false economy. Trouble is if the EU overpays then the criticism would be not using the bloc to drive down pricing, wasteful bureaucrats who should be held accountable for the shocking waste of money, too much red tape, yada, yada.

 

[marco]

i think keeping mutated strains offshore from the United Kingdom would be near to impossible,there will allways be a country who lag behind in lateset vaccination updates to fight new varrients so to combat that it would need to be a worlwide vaccination program and thats never going to happen,its a very good point you make and it makes you realise were still going to be a very long way off normal even when fully vaccinated

 

[BobKowalski]

i think keeping mutated strains offshore from the United Kingdom would be near to impossible,there will allways be a country who lag behind in lateset vaccination updates to fight new varrients so to combat that it would need to be a worlwide vaccination program and thats never going to happen,its a very good point you make and it makes you realise were still going to be a very long way off normal even when fully vaccinated

I think the figure worldwide is 5 billion to get there, and vaccinating 5 billion from a standing start is hell of a task, it’s no wonder everyone is having teething problems.

But we have made extraordinary progress with developing the vaccines in such a short time, and if we can get production worldwide up and running who knows. I suspect you’re right about living with the virus and things never going back to how they were, but I’ll take getting back to some semblance of normality right now. A game with fans being there would be a start :)

 

[metalblue]

Because the EU approach was to try and not have countries getting ‘first dibs’, they wanted everyone to benefit at roughly the same time and smaller countries not be penalised.

For better or worse that was the strategy, which is why the EU is a tad ‘emotional’ with the UK right now, and with AZ as well, I guess.

When you say “everyone benefit at same time” you mean member states not everyone. It’s like saying the UKs strategy is to have all counties benefit at same time. Nothing noble in that, just standard

 

[metalblue]

So, Oxford binning the vaccine because Brits weren’t first in the queue helps who exactly? A binned vaccine certainly ain’t helping any Brits is it?

The Pfizer vaccine didn’t come with a German first or an EU first condition as far as I am aware (happy to be corrected on this if I’m wrong). No one was saying ‘unless these people get the vaccine first, it ain’t happening’. Pretty sure we got it first.

Just strikes me as a bit weird.

Nor did the Oxford vaccine come with a UK first strategy, it’s been rolled out globally

 

[GH64]

Nor did the Oxford vaccine come with a UK first strategy, it’s been rolled out globally

It did. We funded it That is absolutely the whole point.
Then it was to be rolled out globally, at cost
Look at the press releases when the Oxford / AZ deal was signed April 30

 

[Newman Noggs]

It's the next stage that intrigues me. Having approved the vaccine and sorted out supplies, how are they going to arrange a fair distribution of the supplies across the member states as they are delivered ?

 

[Tb1981]

Yeah and that attracted similar criticism. But for this to work we need five billion people vaccinated or we will be forever chasing our tails with this shit.

A fully vaccinated UK is not protected if the rest of Europe isn’t vaccinated, and that includes countries on the periphery. It’s nice we can shake our pompoms at how great we are doing, but it ain’t solving shit if everyone else is lagging behind.

You honestly hate your country don’t you?
There’s nothing you can’t pick holes in.
Ain’t solving shit?
Vaccinating everyone Might not be 100% perfect but it will go a long way to solving ‘shit’
You have hated the last 24 hours Because your EU buddies have been shown up big time.
Feel free to start posting articles trying to recover the situation....too late the EU have shown what they are like.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Short of vic and bob criticising them it couldn’t get any worse.

 

[mcfc1632]

I can see how it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other.

This will sour EU/UK relationship but the actual subject is Covid political and there are other questions that I would like it to spread to which, would stray it further from Brexit.

In the end it doesn’t matter where it’s discussed I suppose, but I still see the issue itself rather than how it may develop as not Brexit driven.

Was busy yesterday evening and missed all the fun and games - I have 30 pages to catch up.

I may have missed all sorts of events of yesterday evening - but I would be interested in your take on the actions of the EU last night, seemingly without even showing Ireland the respect of being involved in decision making?

I know that you have previously disagreed with my views that the EU have not always acted through altruism and solely a desire to uphold the GFA. I have suggested that the EU essentially 'opportunistically used' the border issue and I have previously mentioned that Ireland might not find themselves at the 'heart' of EU priorities once Brexit has been done.

In the last days I was reading an article, in the Brussels Times I think, that commented on the acceptance by Ireland that they will have to progress with 'harmonisation' of Corporation Tax - and then you have this action last night. Just feels to me that Ireland might be in for some less welcome EU attention.

Anyway - just interested in your take on things

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So a company makes a vaccine for zero profit during a global pandemic And the EU thinks now is the best time to pick a fight with them and go all guns blazing?
I can only imagine the calls for Boris to resign if this was the other way round.
Sounds to me like the EU has dithered over the approval, while also trying to discredit this vaccines effectiveness, delayed procurement and now thinks the best way out is to make the whole situation worse with a diplomatic war
Couldn’t make it up
Short of vic and bob criticising them it couldn’t get any worse.

Utterly shameful behaviour and bully boy tactics from the EU to try and reddress their own ineptitude. There surely cant be a single EU citizen that is impressed with their handling of the vaccine rollout and their antics the past few days.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It's the next stage that intrigues me. Having approved the vaccine and sorted out supplies, how are they going to arrange a fair distribution of the supplies across the member states as they are delivered ?

I suspect they wont be able to. I understand Germany has ordered more by itself as it clearly didnt trust the EU. Wonder if the EU will insist on seeing Germanys contract with their vaccine supplier.

 

[mcfc1632]

You honestly hate your country don’t you?
There’s nothing you can’t pick holes in.
Ain’t solving shit?
Vaccinating everyone Might not be 100% perfect but it will go a long way to solving ‘shit’
You have hated the last 24 hours Because your EU buddies have been shown up big time.
Feel free to start posting articles trying to recover the situation....too late the EU have shown what they are like.

I am just catching up - 30 pages to go - but I was expecting that surely not even Bob or Vic could be defending the EU's actions

Is there no limit to what they would do in their sycophancy?

 

[mcfc1632]

No one is going to court, except the court of public opinion in Europe where AZ are going to get hammered. It also explains why the CEO of AZ was talking to the media and getting his side of the story in first.

AZ were trying to service two separate contracts that partially cut across each other and have come unstuck.

More importantly, is resolving this issue going forward, which may involve three parties, UK, EU, and AZ getting around the table and thrashing something out (assuming the EU authorise the AZ vaccine).

As I am catching up this morning and listening to various news channels - I found Euro News very informative - it would actually appear that it is the EU that is getting hammered

You must be gutted

 

[mcfc1632]

if you genuinely think AZ are going to come out of this worse than the EU leadership, by the public, then I’m not sure you’re going to be persuaded on anything.

If I was a German citizen now and I watched the EU delay for 3 months whilst the UK got on with it, and now this contract dispute which has shown them to have been talking absolute shite on the “best endeavour” point, I’d be livid with them, over the manufacturer struggling to now meet demand.

When I said you are in a cult yesterday I meant it, there’s zero objectivity and your judgment is clouded by a hatred for the UK and love for anyone who opposes them.

This was your reply to the post from Bob that I have just replied to

As I listen to the news channels this morning - it seems that your post has proven more perceptive than Bobs

What you have said in this post - really needed saying and is made more obvious every day

 

[Gray]

Utterly shameful behaviour and bully boy tactics from the EU to try and reddress their own ineptitude. There surely cant be a single EU citizen that is impressed with their handling of the vaccine rollout and their antics the past few days.

We are well shut of them.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

No one is going to court, except the court of public opinion in Europe where AZ are going to get hammered. It also explains why the CEO of AZ was talking to the media and getting his side of the story in first.

AZ were trying to service two separate contracts that partially cut across each other and have come unstuck.

More importantly, is resolving this issue going forward, which may involve three parties, UK, EU, and AZ getting around the table and thrashing something out (assuming the EU authorise the AZ vaccine).

You have come out with some good observations on this issue the past few days Bob. But on this im affraid your are talking bobbins. The only people this reflects badly on is the EU.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You honestly hate your country don’t you?
There’s nothing you can’t pick holes in.
Ain’t solving shit?
Vaccinating everyone Might not be 100% perfect but it will go a long way to solving ‘shit’
You have hated the last 24 hours Because your EU buddies have been shown up big time.
Feel free to start posting articles trying to recover the situation....too late the EU have shown what they are like.

We’ve got fuck all grounds to crow about our handling of this pandemic. The numbers speak for themselves. The vaccine roll-out is mitigation, not vindication.

 

[Tb1981]

We’ve got fuck all grounds to crow about our handling of this pandemic. The numbers speak for themselves. The vaccine roll-out is mitigation, not vindication.

So would you prefer the uk vaccine mitigation roll out to be slower and vaccinate less people?
Or better still give vaccines to other countries half way through the process?
You can say the handling has been shit (not sure you will get much disagreement from many) but you can’t then use that as a means to criticise this part or say it doesn’t solve ‘shit’

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Because the EU approach was to try and not have

So would you prefer the uk vaccine mitigation roll out to be slower and vaccinate less people?
Or better still give vaccines to other countries half way through the process?
You can say the handling has been shit (not sure you will get much disagreement from many) but you can’t then use that as a means to criticise this part or say it doesn’t solve ‘shit’

i think its called throwing enough mud in the hope that some will stick and obscure the issue that was being dicussed.