Political relations between UK-EU

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This is a good, if depressing, article. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see things clearly. See if you can identify this forum's Brexit fans individually in it. They've all got their own section. Here's a starter for ten:

"But the British left was so painfully stupid that it couldn’t see it. It, too, was blinded by the fever dream of nationalism. We can build a communist utopia without those evil capitalists from the EU! You fools, the EU is history’s greatest example of what the left can achieve. It is an entire continent where people have healthcare, retirement, education, income, housing, as basic human rights. Karl Marx would be astonished and proud. But that wasn’t good enough for the arrogant, bumbling, astonishingly uneducated, inept, and clueless British left — having built history’s greatest social democratic project, period."


How Britain Became the Dumbest Society in the World | by umair haque | Mar, 2021 | Eudaimonia and Co (eand.co)
 
Confirmation that we will not be talking control of our borders until October and into next year, via BBC. For context, the EU went operational on border controls on 1st Jan, with some grace periods ie UK exporting firms have until the end of the year to provide full Rules of Origin info to see if backdated tariffs apply.

‘Govt delays post Brexit import paperwork checks due next month and in July... until October, and into next year.

* pre notification requirements/ export health certificates for animal origin not now required until October
* deferred declaration customs extended Jan 2022
* Safety and Security Declarations Jan 2022
* physical agrioood checks on imports Jan 2022
* live animal checks March 2022

This will come as a huge relief to importing businesses... however some exporting businesses and hauliers were under the impression the threat of reciprocal checks would be used as leverage to get the EU to ease its checks. Won’t happen now until next year.’
 
Didsbury Dave said:
This is a good, if depressing, article. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see things clearly. See if you can identify this forum's Brexit fans individually in it. They've all got their own section. Here's a starter for ten:

"But the British left was so painfully stupid that it couldn’t see it. It, too, was blinded by the fever dream of nationalism. We can build a communist utopia without those evil capitalists from the EU! You fools, the EU is history’s greatest example of what the left can achieve. It is an entire continent where people have healthcare, retirement, education, income, housing, as basic human rights. Karl Marx would be astonished and proud. But that wasn’t good enough for the arrogant, bumbling, astonishingly uneducated, inept, and clueless British left — having built history’s greatest social democratic project, period."


How Britain Became the Dumbest Society in the World | by umair haque | Mar, 2021 | Eudaimonia and Co (eand.co)
Click to expand...
Another article from the same author. All very dystopian and according to him inevitable.
https://eand.co/america-and-britain-are-teaching-the-world-how-societies-implode-7dc22a86278a
Hopefully he's wrong about the inevitability of our collective demise and there's still time for us to get new leadership who can pull us out of the shit, which means swallowing our pride and attempting to negotiate rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union as an interim step to rejoining the EU in 10 or 20 years. We will have to go through some serious shit first though to make people realise what we've done.
 
BobKowalski said:
Confirmation that we will not be talking control of our borders until October and into next year, via BBC. For context, the EU went operational on border controls on 1st Jan, with some grace periods ie UK exporting firms have until the end of the year to provide full Rules of Origin info to see if backdated tariffs apply.

‘Govt delays post Brexit import paperwork checks due next month and in July... until October, and into next year.

* pre notification requirements/ export health certificates for animal origin not now required until October
* deferred declaration customs extended Jan 2022
* Safety and Security Declarations Jan 2022
* physical agrioood checks on imports Jan 2022
* live animal checks March 2022

This will come as a huge relief to importing businesses... however some exporting businesses and hauliers were under the impression the threat of reciprocal checks would be used as leverage to get the EU to ease its checks. Won’t happen now until next year.’
Click to expand...
Does that go against WTO rules by giving the EU an advantage over other countries?
Will other countries be able to go to WTO arbitration to get the same privileges as we're giving the EU which would further disadvantage UK industry?
 
west didsblue said:
Another article from the same author. All very dystopian and according to him inevitable.
https://eand.co/america-and-britain-are-teaching-the-world-how-societies-implode-7dc22a86278a
Hopefully he's wrong about the inevitability of our collective demise and there's still time for us to get new leadership who can pull us out of the shit, which means swallowing our pride and attempting to negotiate rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union as an interim step to rejoining the EU in 10 or 20 years. We will have to go through some serious shit first though to make people realise what we've done.
Click to expand...
I remain optimistic that the majority of the young are much more liberal and outward looking and they will backlash against the nationalism and insularity as they take over the world. They are already changing gender/sexuality perceptions. I expect them to be next after the Scots and Irish to be demonised by the right wing gutter press and the brain dead fools who read them.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I remain optimistic that the majority of the young are much more liberal and outward looking and they will backlash against the nationalism and insularity as they take over the world. They are already changing gender/sexuality perceptions. I expect them to be next after the Scots and Irish to be demonised by the right wing gutter press and the brain dead fools who read them.
Click to expand...
This is all true but as a note of caution, the electoral system is stacked against young(er) liberal voters because of their geographical concentration in the big cities. Obviously step one is for them to assemble a plurality of votes, but even if/when they do it's not much use when for every 25,000 vote majority in Withington you lose 3 seats by narrow margins in low turnout elections in Leyland or wherever.

(Also I'm just fucking pissed off today as I had to pay customs on the birthday present my dad sent me in the post. Still, at least it was worth it to keep Spanish nursing staff out of the NHS.)
 
west didsblue said:
Does that go against WTO rules by giving the EU an advantage over other countries?
Will other countries be able to go to WTO arbitration to get the same privileges as we're giving the EU which would further disadvantage UK industry?
Click to expand...

It does, meaning at some point we have to institute the checks, rules and regs.

In effect we have extended the transition period, but only for the benefit of EU countries and businesses. UK businesses got fucked over. Implementing an industrial policy that favours businesses in other countries is a bold one. Not so much ‘Britain First’, more ‘Fuck British Business’. To be fair, Johnson did flag this policy and we did vote for it, so not much point British Businesses moaning about it I guess.
 
BobKowalski said:
It does, meaning at some point we have to institute the checks, rules and regs.

In effect we have extended the transition period, but only for the benefit of EU countries and businesses. UK businesses got fucked over. Implementing an industrial policy that favours businesses in other countries is a bold one. Not so much ‘Britain First’, more ‘Fuck British Business’. To be fair, Johnson did flag this policy and we did vote for it, so not much point British Businesses moaning about it I guess.
Click to expand...

This regaining sovereignty and taking back control involves a lot of handing both on to other institutions doesn't it?
 
bluethrunthru said:
Census in 2021 will be very interesting in NI. 2011 showed the split was 48% Protestant and 45% Catholic..... I wonder if a fear of a change is driving the DUP ?

www.bbc.co.uk

'Catholic majority possible' in NI by 2021

Dr Paul Nolan believes Catholics will outnumber Protestants by the centenary of the creation of NI.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
I think itll be interesting in that there may well be a change on those %'s....but again, as discussed before, we should move away from the religious/political alliances....over the years it has changed, and moreso following Brexit.

Historically there would have been many better-off/middle class Catholics who (possibly secretly) preferred NI to remain British....both economies have changed significantly...meaning, many of them may no longer fear a potential amalgamation with the RoI.

Also there is an increase of those from a perceived unionist background (im deliberately not saying Protestant) who also no longer fear an increased "Irishness"

I guess what i mean is that the traditional Catholic / Protestant divide no longer truly represents the Nationalist / Unionist divide.

The younger generation are also more secular....both of my kids (16 and 23) insisted they were marked as "no religion" on the census...even though they have both been christened......so there will be many changes like that
 
Didsbury Dave said:
This is a good, if depressing, article. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see things clearly. See if you can identify this forum's Brexit fans individually in it. They've all got their own section. Here's a starter for ten:

"But the British left was so painfully stupid that it couldn’t see it. It, too, was blinded by the fever dream of nationalism. We can build a communist utopia without those evil capitalists from the EU! You fools, the EU is history’s greatest example of what the left can achieve. It is an entire continent where people have healthcare, retirement, education, income, housing, as basic human rights. Karl Marx would be astonished and proud. But that wasn’t good enough for the arrogant, bumbling, astonishingly uneducated, inept, and clueless British left — having built history’s greatest social democratic project, period."


How Britain Became the Dumbest Society in the World | by umair haque | Mar, 2021 | Eudaimonia and Co (eand.co)
Click to expand...
I too am surprised at @Rascal 's take on brexit. I would not however label him with any of the tags in the article.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
I think itll be interesting in that there may well be a change on those %'s....but again, as discussed before, we should move away from the religious/political alliances....over the years it has changed, and moreso following Brexit.

Historically there would have been many better-off/middle class Catholics who (possibly secretly) preferred NI to remain British....both economies have changed significantly...meaning, many of them may no longer fear a potential amalgamation with the RoI.

Also there is an increase of those from a perceived unionist background (im deliberately not saying Protestant) who also no longer fear an increased "Irishness"

I guess what i mean is that the traditional Catholic / Protestant divide no longer truly represents the Nationalist / Unionist divide.

The younger generation are also more secular....both of my kids (16 and 23) insisted they were marked as "no religion" on the census...even though they have both been christened......so there will be many changes like that
Click to expand...
The higher that 'no religion' number gets in NI the better, hard to be sectarian in a place where the majority don't give a fuck about religion in my experience.
 
west didsblue said:
Another article from the same author. All very dystopian and according to him inevitable.
https://eand.co/america-and-britain-are-teaching-the-world-how-societies-implode-7dc22a86278a
Hopefully he's wrong about the inevitability of our collective demise and there's still time for us to get new leadership who can pull us out of the shit, which means swallowing our pride and attempting to negotiate rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union as an interim step to rejoining the EU in 10 or 20 years. We will have to go through some serious shit first though to make people realise what we've done.
Click to expand...
I found it profoundly sad reading that article, even if it is deliberately extreme. When on earth will we get the leadership at U.K. level capable of winding us back from this. Where are the voices that are being truthful about what we have done. Where are the new generation of Ken Clarks, Hesaltines, Blairs?

Maybe an exceptional woman somewhere will emerge with the capability to turn us round.

Right this moment though, I cannot see anything other than these bastards mulching the country with lie after lie after lie after lie until none of us can see what is wrong With this cesspit of a society we are descending inexorably into. Who will defeat them? Labour? Don’t make me laugh.
 
bluethrunthru said:
This regaining sovereignty and taking back control involves a lot of handing both on to other institutions doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Seems to. Yesterday there was a meeting in Washington arranged by Dublin involving EU and the Friends of Ireland Caucus to discuss Northern Ireland. The UK was not involved. We didn’t get an invite to discuss a UK sovereign country.

Mad when you think about it.
 
BobKowalski said:
Seems to. Yesterday there was a meeting in Washington arranged by Dublin involving EU and the Friends of Ireland Caucus to discuss Northern Ireland. The UK was not involved. We didn’t get an invite to discuss a UK sovereign country.

Mad when you think about it.
Click to expand...

That will be why Downing Street have announced they are sending an envoy to speak to the Biden administration ( not Biden himself you'll note ) to "reassure them" over our moves on the extensions and international law.

Mixture of FOMO, face saving and trying to look relevant in that move........
 
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