Keir Starmer

mat said:
According to their membership records. Sir Keir is a member of the trilateral commission. A group whom Noam Chomsky describes as;

"Essentially liberal internationalists from Europe, Japan and the United States, the liberal wing of the intellectual elite.

That's where Jimmy Carter's whole government came from. The Trilateral Commission was concerned with trying to induce what they called "more moderation in democracy"—turn people back to passivity and obedience so they don't put so many constraints on state power and so on. In particular they were worried about young people. They were concerned about the institutions responsible for the indoctrination of the young (that's their phrase), meaning schools, universities, church and so on—they're not doing their job, [the young are] not being sufficiently indoctrinated. They're too free to pursue their own initiatives and concerns and you've got to control them better."


His last paragraph proves the point by the way Starmer has deliberately ignores young Labour party members forcing them to leave and set up their own organisation.
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I've now watched one of their virtual meetings from last summer on YouTube. Unlike the secret machinations of the Tufton Street organisations, this looks fairly open and while I respect Chomsky's view of the world he seems to have fixated on the "excess of democracy" phrase (from one book).

Their own stance is:

"The Trilateral Commission is a non-governmental, policy-oriented forum that brings together leaders in their individual capacity from the worlds of business, government, academia, press and media, as well as civil society. The Commission offers a global platform for open dialogue, reaching out to those with different views and engaging with decision makers from around the world with the aim of finding solutions to the great geopolitical, economic and social challenges of our time. Its members share a firm belief in the values of rule of law, democratic government, human rights, freedom of speech and free enterprise that underpin human progress. Members are also committed to supporting a rules-based international system, closer cooperation across borders and respect for the diversity of approaches to policy issues."

Having been a member of a war studies extra mural group at Keele, which had as guest speakers Enoch Powell, diplomats from the Soviet embassy and the apartheid S African embassy, I'm open to different ideas without someone thinking I agree with them all.
 
Wow.

Sky News just murdered Starmer.

Couldn't find anyone who knew who he was. Found a few that liked Boris "Cos he's a character...!"

A year in and he's fucked already.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Murdoch channel airs selected partial interviews ?
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I know...

Numerous mentions of red walls. Tory councilors slagging him off. For balance asking Starmer a question where he says the Tories have got a bounce in the polls.

Corbyn must have had a chuckle watching it.
 
Labour's refusal to back Brexit and Keir's association with remain is destroying the Labour party.

Those staffers at party HQ who sabotaged the last election, the raft of centrist MPs who agitated this is all on them.

This country is close now to becoming a one party state, a right wing one party state, a state where the interests of capital take precedent over the interests of people.

It breaks my fucking heart.
 
I wish the Labour Party in Wales would separate from the main party & join up with Plaid & the rest of the left.
The main Labour Party are currently irrelevant, maybe independence is the only way we'll get away from Tory rule
 
Rascal said:
Labour's refusal to back Brexit and Keir's association with remain is destroying the Labour party.

Those staffers at party HQ who sabotaged the last election, the raft of centrist MPs who agitated this is all on them.

This country is close now to becoming a one party state, a right wing one party state, a state where the interests of capital take precedent over the interests of people.

It breaks my fucking heart.
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Corbyn should resign.
 
Gray said:
Conservatives romp the Hartlepool by election, that is a big blow for Mr. Wishy Washy.
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Labour is in a right mess. They have a very small pool of credible candidates to lead them out of this. Starmer is one of the better ones, which says everything about the party. It will swing back eventually but could be ten years or more. They first need to start on their image and portray a more positive message.

Cons 15k v Labour 8k votes is stunning.
 
Rascal said:
Labour's refusal to back Brexit and Keir's association with remain is destroying the Labour party.

Those staffers at party HQ who sabotaged the last election, the raft of centrist MPs who agitated this is all on them.

This country is close now to becoming a one party state, a right wing one party state, a state where the interests of capital take precedent over the interests of people.

It breaks my fucking heart.
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How could Labour back Brexit, proving to be a disaster, when most Labour voters were against Brexit?

I can't be bothered checking the individual stats for Hartlepool, but I suspect that might have been true even in Hartlepool.

See what happens elsewhere, but I don't know what you do with people who blame Labout for the way Redcar now looks.
 
This country votes the way the mainstream media tells them to vote.

Blair understood this and got them onside. I don't think any Labour leader could do that now.

Starmer is fucked whatever he does.
 
dave_blue12 said:
This country votes the way the mainstream media tells them to vote.

Blair understood this and got them onside. I don't think any Labour leader could do that now.

Starmer is fucked whatever he does.
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People do nothing of the sort, that you and your party refuse to see the wood for the trees, is the reason the party is dying.
 
Vic said:
How could Labour back Brexit, proving to be a disaster, when most Labour voters were against Brexit?

I can't be bothered checking the individual stats for Hartlepool, but I suspect that might have been true even in Hartlepool.

See what happens elsewhere, but I don't know what you do with people who blame Labout for the way Redcar now looks.
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Labour piled up votes where they weren't needed and lost votes where they were needed. Pro-EU Metropolitan areas voted Labour, but the red wall didn't.

Whether Brexit is a disaster or not is not the point Vic, Labour on the whole was on the wrong side of the debate when it should have been on the leave side. You simply cannot be left wing and pro EU as the EU is a capitalist construct. Labour became associated with the metropolitan liberal elite and lost the working class vote. We could debate it all over again, but it does not alter the fact that the country voted for Brexit and Labour were on the wrong side of history and now the people who voted for Brexit are stuck with a Government that will rule not in their interest but in the interest of capital because Labour were not brave enough to take the pro-Leave position and then govern in the interests of the people, not capital.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
People do nothing of the sort, that you and your party refuse to see the wood for the trees, is the reason the party is dying.
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Correct and that is why Cameron thought we would all vote to remain in the EU. He was sat in the middle of London where billions of pounds have been spent on improvements whilst the rest of us were deriving no perceivable benefits at all of being in the EU. Time will tell if we were right to leave but so far so good, especially where Covid vaccinations are concerned.
 
From someone who would bite my right arm off than vote torie, Labour will never win an election again in my lifestime they are fucked they are so distanced from the labour voter it is unreal. In fact it’s that bad I wasn’t surprised when I woke up to hear the Hartlepool result I expected it very sad dark days, months, years, ahead
 
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Indaparkside said:
From someone who would bite my right arm off than vote torie, Labour will never win an election again in my lifestime they are fucked they are so distanced from the labour voter it is unreal. In fact it’s that bad I wasn’t surprised when I woke up to hear the Hartlepool result I expected it very sad dark days, months, years, ahead
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Why do you feel distanced?

That hopefully is the question that is asked.
 
Vic said:
How could Labour back Brexit, proving to be a disaster, when most Labour voters were against Brexit?

I can't be bothered checking the individual stats for Hartlepool, but I suspect that might have been true even in Hartlepool.

See what happens elsewhere, but I don't know what you do with people who blame Labout for the way Redcar now looks.
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hartlepool was a 70% leave voting area .

despite that kier insisted on putting a strong remain supporting candidate in to fight the seat.

stupid idea and another example of Labour not listening to the people on the ground and trying to tell the people how to think rather than listening .

it’s a strong leave area , not all Labour were pro eu so there would have been other candidates they could have put in.

it’s a real challenge for the party now as to which way they go more moderate or hard left again. Unfortunately the public (outside London) seem to be rejecting both versions.

it’s a tough one. We need them to get it right for the good of the country.
 
Labour party trying to be all things to all people for too long. Should just stick to basics. Starmer also still has a lot of remain baggage and a lack of charisma, comes across as wishy washy at times with a lack of passion for UK PLC. Most working class labour people I know including members of my family were and are much more patriotic than how the labour leadership appears to be the past decade or so.

Should have gone for Nandy less remain bagage. Hard to see how Starmer can come back from this, if he is unable to capitalise on the mistakes by the government the past 12mths.
 
Rascal said:
Why do you feel distanced?

That hopefully is the question that is asked.
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Rascal you are probably the most loyal defender of the Labour Party on this forum and I applaud you for this, but if you have to ask that question it makes me sad you must see they are falling faster than arsenal mate
 
In Hartlepool

2005 under Blair labour got 18,251 votes

2010 under Brown labour got 16,267 votes

2015 under Ed Miliband Labour got 14.026 votes

2017 under Corbyn Labour got 21,696 votes


2021 under Keir Labour got 8,569
 
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