Coronavirus (2021) thread

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marcus said:
I agree with most of what you say but that last line shows a lot of ignorance.
teachers have worked hard over the last year.
ask any teacher would they rather work from the classroom or via on line learning ...
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I know teachers have worked hard but if they want kids to catch up they may need to sacrifice for one year the 6 week holiday maybe have 3 instead.
 
‘Experts’ are generally only expert in their particular field. The mistake people are making is only viewing this through the lens of epidemiology and lacking empathy towards those that have zoomed out and looked at the bigger picture. Just deferring to ‘experts’ whose only interest is the Covid aspect and who don’t know, understand or care about the impact of a ‘covid-only’ attitude is misguided.

The job of politicians is to manage us out of this crisis taking into account the epidemiology but also not destroying the futures of the vast majority of citizens in the process. Unfortunately, because our politicians are so useless, as they have demonstrated in abundance, they are more bothered about blame and so hide behind alleged experts to avoid having to show any leadership and end up doing nothing. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

I’ve said it before that there will be a social ending to this pandemic because the ‘experts’ will never be satisfied and the goalposts will always move away. So it is left to the citizens to decide when they’re no longer scared and that life must go on.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
Got a lads trip to Anglesey on the 18th for a week in privately rented accom (mate of a mate) think we're going to be looked at as scum if we can get there. All fully vaccinated but of course can still carry it.

Looking at the Wales figures, if you lived there you'd not want any NW people knocking about.
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I was in Wales this weekend, in Criccieth. Everyone I spoke to seemed very happy that tourists were starting to come back. Their economy has been decimated since COVID began, I think, bar the odd person here and there they will welcome us back with open arms.
 
Dubai Blue said:
Absolutely intentional. They don't want to be seen as the "bad guys" so avoid making firm decisions wherever possible. Then when/if it goes tits up, they can just say "Well, we did advise people not to do that, but unfortunately they chose to ignore us." They've been doing it the entire time.
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I can even remember the first time when the over-promoted clowns in cabinet started with the gaslighting right back in the first lockdown. "We expect people to use common sense" and "Britain is a freedom loving nation".

If common sense and love of freedom were traits held by the majority of Brits these people wouldn't be anywhere near government and we would have a fraction of the deaths and the problems.
 
ayrshire_blue said:
Maths says otherwise. That's why the experts are telling us so. Why would you be right and all the experts would be wrong?

If there were a thousand cases per day and pre vaccines, 5% of them required hospital treatment - that's 50 people out of every 1,000

If cases now go to 10 thousand per day but thanks to the vaccines only 1% of them require hospital treatment - that's 100 people out of every 1,000.

Using small round figures just to demonstrate the point btw.
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I get the point you're making, but the people who require hospital treatment now are mostly idiots who refuse to get a vaccine despite being vulnerable.
If they haven't had their vaccine yet, they probably aren't going to get it. I don't think it's fair that the vast majority of people who either aren't at risk of COVID or who have been vaccinated should suffer to prevent these idiots from spending a week in the hospital.

The NHS isn't anywhere near being overwhelmed at the moment. It can handle the sizeable number of idiots who are putting their own lives at risk for now.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Those under 40 need to be vaccinated or catch it to protect the rest of society from the next bad variant that could be many times worse.
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The issue is that being vaccinated only protects from severe illness. You can still catch and spread COVID, so there will always be new variants and it will always be used as a threat to control the general public.

I'd argue vaccinating the under 30s as they are doing now will have an incredibly minimal effect on hospital figures.
 
Manchester33 said:
The issue is that being vaccinated only protects from severe illness. You can still catch and spread COVID, so there will always be new variants and it will always be used as a threat to control the general public.

I'd argue vaccinating the under 30s as they are doing now will have an incredibly minimal effect on hospital figures.
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Spreading wise, the more people are vaccinated the less spread there will be, the body knows how to fight it off so fights it off quickly before the body gets ill or it has time to spread enough to transmit. 1 shot doesnt reduce trasmission much, 2nd does a lot more. we will hit a critical mass where there wont be enough transmission for it and it will burn out.

But, and this is the massive crux of the matter. even if we hit that in this country. there's a whole world out there that hasn't.
 
Manchester33 said:
The issue is that being vaccinated only protects from severe illness. You can still catch and spread COVID,
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This is incorrect.

The vaccines provide not complete but very substantial protection against transmission, following from PHE:

Screenshot_20210608-151932_Drive.jpg

Vaccinating U30s, even with one dose and even against delta variant can be expected to have a very substantial impact on the currently rising wave.
 
England hospital deaths 12 - with 4 from NW.

Last week it was 1 with 0. Though that was after a bank holiday,

Wks before 9 with 4 and 8 with 2 NW

11 of the 12 were in the past week The other from February.

The 4 from NW were i each in Bolton, Pennine, Salford and Wigan. So all in GM.

The ages were 1aged 20 - 39, 4 aged 40 - 59, 3 aged 60 - 79 and 4 aged 80+

So more aged under 60 died than aged over 80.

There are startuing to be small but notieceable signs of a small rise in the England hspital death numbers week to week. It seems to have plareaued about 2 weeks ago.

Nothing really worrying but it is like patients a little on the rise.
 
Marvin said:
That's out of date.
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Sure, everything is, and the delta variant is worse, but the principle still holds. Anything that reduces transmission helps. The vaccines reduce transmission.

If you have an update for delta, I'd love to see it
 
ayrshire_blue said:
Maths says otherwise. That's why the experts are telling us so. Why would you be right and all the experts would be wrong?

If there were a thousand cases per day and pre vaccines, 5% of them required hospital treatment - that's 50 people out of every 1,000

If cases now go to 10 thousand per day but thanks to the vaccines only 1% of them require hospital treatment - that's 100 people out of every 1,000.

Using small round figures just to demonstrate the point btw.
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Stick to made up stats like this. It is your level.

I'll use actual stats to educate you

12383 actual covid cases
126 in hospital
83 unvaccinated
3 fully vacinated

so your hospitalisations of unvaccinated people is way off where it should be more than double actually.

so say this is circa 1.5% using the above figures (not 5% like you say) the vaccines reduce this by 93% giving you a hospitalization rate of 0.1% ten times lower than your imaginary stats and within line to the actual stats quoted above.
 
artfuldodger said:
Wonder if they allow all over 18s the jab. Didnt that happen in Bolton?
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It's about time they identified the areas by post code that have the highest cases, instead of putting people that have had their Vaccines and stuck to the rules and are being asked to go back into a higher level again, well they can fuck off enough is enough
 
Manchester33 said:
I get the point you're making, but the people who require hospital treatment now are mostly idiots who refuse to get a vaccine despite being vulnerable.
If they haven't had their vaccine yet, they probably aren't going to get it. I don't think it's fair that the vast majority of people who either aren't at risk of COVID or who have been vaccinated should suffer to prevent these idiots from spending a week in the hospital.

The NHS isn't anywhere near being overwhelmed at the moment. It can handle the sizeable number of idiots who are putting their own lives at risk for now.
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plus his maths are way off
 
Manchester33 said:
I get the point you're making, but the people who require hospital treatment now are mostly idiots who refuse to get a vaccine despite being vulnerable.
If they haven't had their vaccine yet, they probably aren't going to get it. I don't think it's fair that the vast majority of people who either aren't at risk of COVID or who have been vaccinated should suffer to prevent these idiots from spending a week in the hospital.

The NHS isn't anywhere near being overwhelmed at the moment. It can handle the sizeable number of idiots who are putting their own lives at risk for now.
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Nope. It's also people with weakened immune immune systems and those who can't take the vaccine. And a number of others who don't fit any category. There's no way you or I know the breakdown. I understand people want to get on with it, but we can't just make up what we want about reality to support our argument. People wouldn't accept others being forced to get the vaccine. Now what? The problem - the cost in lives and to general health (let's not forget we have over 1m long covid patients out there, and their long term prognosis is unkown) - is much smaller but it didn't disappear. There's time to go through all of this in an adult fashion, and the sooner people accept the facts people at the top cannot dispute or ignore, and get on with working through the issues - rather than just fitting things into their own preferred version of reality, the better.
 
Manchester33 said:
I get the point you're making, but the people who require hospital treatment now are mostly idiots who refuse to get a vaccine despite being vulnerable.
If they haven't had their vaccine yet, they probably aren't going to get it. I don't think it's fair that the vast majority of people who either aren't at risk of COVID or who have been vaccinated should suffer to prevent these idiots from spending a week in the hospital.

The NHS isn't anywhere near being overwhelmed at the moment. It can handle the sizeable number of idiots who are putting their own lives at risk for now.
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What about the people who require cancer treatment and other medical procedures whilst you have high numbers of a combination of the following:

1/ People who were vaccinated but unfortunately within the minority who are not fully protected and require treatment
2/ Idiots who refuse to take the vaccine and now require medical help
3/ People who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons who contract Covid and require help
4/ People who haven't yet been offered a vaccine, or at least two doses, who are vulnerable but didn't previously know until contracting Covid


There are a lot people susceptible to Covid out there and a lot of people who require medical treatment for a range of issues which have nothing to do with Covid. It's not just 'idiots' which the hospitals will have to contend with.
 
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