Are we really a democracy?

[PannickAtTheDisco]

No. Free is just a container word.

 

[dave_blue12]

Not at all. We don’t bow down and don’t think they’re our betters.

Most people seek out work we want to do and leave the running of the country to the people who wanted to seek that out as their career path, all while - on the whole - just happily getting on with our lives since most peoples’ day-to-day lives are completely unaffected by politics, which is where our kind of democracy works, and works well!

People have got more ambition and more interesting interests and skillsets than working in govt provides. Politicians are fairly low skilled and generic civil servants. That’s all I look at them as, I don’t care what school they went to or if their family owns acres of land somewhere. Very few politicians are experts in their field and their field can change at the drop of a hat; one minute you can be the Minister for Health, the next you’re the Home Secretary. MPs are are just a load of Jack-of-all-Trades, Masters-of-None! Why would anyone think that makes them our betters?

If you were serious about Health, you’d get a specific job in the Health sector. You wouldn’t seek out politics on the off and very slim chance you ever got to work in Health. Leave the Minister for Health job for some yes-man somewhere else.

The good thing about Britain is that we’re democratic enough and the govt have just little enough influence over its citizens, that we could all live an entire life never voting even once in our lives, never even thinking about politics, never being affected by politics, and live a happy life, doing a job we enjoy, bringing a happy family into the world. You can be poor and do this, like so many happy families are, don’t have to have money. And leave all the govt shit to people who want to do it, never really thinking about them never mind bowing down the them or thinking they are our betters.

I think people who are interested in politics get too wrapped up in it all. I’d emplore anyone who is very wrapped up in politics and political outlooks, to take a two year hiatus from all things political and just life their life in the real world for those two years… they’d see that politics is NOWHERE FUCKING NEAR as important as they think it is, and politicians, political parties and political outlooks, and so-called issues that society faces are nowhere near as important and influential, as big or as bad, as those wrapped up in politics think they are.

And that’s where our democracy is a successful democaracy.

What a strange point of view.

Politics isn't important to people until it is.

When people are impacted by not getting health care, police not turning up to crimes, the prices of things they want to buy etc etc politics suddenly becomes important.

If you don't believe that this country is largely run by the old school tie network I would suggest you look at the schools and universities that those who hold and have held the high offices of state attended.

Democracy in the UK is a sham.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

What a strange point of view.

Politics isn't important to people until it is.

When people are impacted by not getting health care, police not turning up to crimes, the prices of things they want to buy etc etc politics suddenly becomes important.

If you don't believe that this country is largely run by the old school tie network I would suggest you look at the schools and universities that those who hold and have held the high offices of state attended.

Democracy in the UK is a sham.

I didn’t say I don’t believe this country is largely run by the old school tie network. Just that the people who run the country aren’t anywhere near as important in the grand scheme of things as people think. We run our own lives in this country, the politicians just set the laws in the background that allow us to run our own lives around.

We might need better health care - but we need nothing as a nation to prevent us from being unhealthy in the first place. Running costs nothing, cycling is less expensive than owning a car, cooking proper meals with base ingredients is cheaper than unhealthy food. If the entire nation got up out of bed an hour earlier five days a week and went for a run or cycled to work, and cooked and ate properly, the health service wouldn’t be in the state it’s in.

Police might not turn up for crimes - but if we brought up our children as a nation to behave properly there wouldn’t be as much crime as there is.

Can’t afford something - then don’t buy it or don’t buy fifteen other fucking things they don’t need before buying the thing they do need.

People put far too much importance on the decisions of the govt to absolve their own failings as a person, when the reality is we run our own lives and should take far more responsibility of the things we do and the things that go on around us. There are some people who are only a few steps away from expecting their MP to be sat in their bathroom in the mornings waiting to wipe their arse for them after their first shit of the day.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I didn’t say I don’t believe this country is largely run by the old school tie network. Just that the people who run the country aren’t anywhere near as important in the grand scheme of things as people think. We run our own lives in this country, the politicians just set the laws in the background that allow us to run our own lives around.

We might need better health care - but we need nothing as a nation to prevent us from being unhealthy in the first place. Running costs nothing, cycling is less expensive than owning a car, cooking proper meals with base ingredients is cheaper than unhealthy food. If the entire nation got up out of bed an hour earlier five days a week and went for a run or cycled to work, and cooked and ate properly, the health service wouldn’t be in the state it’s in.

Police might not turn up for crimes - but if we brought up our children as a nation to behave properly there wouldn’t be as much crime as there is.

Can’t afford something - then don’t buy it or don’t buy fifteen other fucking things they don’t need before buying the thing they do need.

People put far too much importance on the decisions of the govt to absolve their own failings as a person, when the reality is we run our own lives and should take far more responsibility of the things we do and the things that go on around us. There are some people who are only a few steps away from expecting their MP to be sat in their bathroom in the mornings waiting to wipe their arse for them after their first shit of the day.

"We are not a nation of social workers and clients of social workers"

 

[i kne albert davy]

FPTP is a blight and a hinderance on this country. I believe it is a source of most that is wrong with politics and the effective and fair running of the UK.

It’s a democratic system of sorts, but it’s unrepresentative and unfair that render it to be a wholly flawed, and supremely wank, democratic system.

Given the current state of our politics, and the standard of politicians these days, I fail to see how anyone can defend it anymore.

The BNP don't get to share in the trough that is the houses of Parliament that will do for me.

 

[SWP's back]

Democracy is overrated. I’d only want a proper democracy if the general public were reliably clued up. In fact, democracy can only work if that’s the case, and it’s nowhere bloody near the case.

I wouldn’t trust the general public the way it is with fucking anything, at all! Look at the Brexit vote, what percentage of the voters were reliably clued up? I’d bet it was a tiny minority. Don’t get me wrong, there were undoubtedly reliably informed and clued up people who voted Leave and Remain, but the majority voted off the back of gut feeling or falling for a pack of lies.

Nowhere near enough people are reliably clued up about any matter to ever be trusted with proper democracy.

If it were up to me I’d be taking votes away from people, never mind wanting a more democratic country. I think the general public should have to pass an exam in politics and current affairs to be able to be awarded a vote. If you don’t pass the exam, you don’t get a vote because you shouldn’t be voting if you don’t understand politics or current affairs.

A-fucking-men

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The BNP don't get to share in the trough that is the houses of Parliament that will do for me.

Why shouldn’t they if a percentage of the population supports their policies? Isn’t thst what democracy is supposed to be about? The exercise of power and lawmaking in a way that is representive of the views and beliefs of the voting population?

 

[i kne albert davy]

Why shouldn’t they if a percentage of the population supports their policies? Isn’t thst what democracy is supposed to be about? The exercise of power and lawmaking in a way that is representive of the views and beliefs of the voting population?

I prefer to think as first passed the post keeps the nutcase fringes where they belong which isn't the houses of Parliament, if they have anything other than minority following fair enough they gain representation. Our system of democracy may not be perfect but until somebody comes up with something better I'll live with it.

 

[blueparrot]

Are we a democracy ,yes of course. Is it the best system, not in my opinion but when we had chance to change it most didn't bother voting and those that did voted for this system so that's what we have. The people get what the people want so that's democracy.

 

[hgblue]

Are we a democracy ,yes of course. Is it the best system, not in my opinion but when we had chance to change it most didn't bother voting and those that did voted for this system so that's what we have. The people get what the people want so that's democracy.

The problems occur when people don't get what they voted for, like Brexit and a Tory government. The basic idea is that millionaire and peasant, genius and fool, all get one vote and the losers accept the result. The fact that some losers can't or won't accept the result is not the fault of democracy.

 

[blueparrot]

The problems occur when people don't get what they voted for, like Brexit and a Tory government. The basic idea is that millionaire and peasant, genius and fool, all get one vote and the losers accept the result. The fact that some losers can't or won't accept the result is not the fault of democracy.

Well I think that occurs because we have a bad system IMO. I don't understand why when we had the chance we didn't change it, seems daft to me. Nothing I can do about that though.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The problems occur when people don't get what they voted for, like Brexit and a Tory government. The basic idea is that millionaire and peasant, genius and fool, all get one vote and the losers accept the result. The fact that some losers can't or won't accept the result is not the fault of democracy.

Why should I meekly ‘accept’ a government that only 40% of people voted for doing what the fuck they want for five years?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I prefer to think as first passed the post keeps the nutcase fringes where they belong which isn't the houses of Parliament, if they have anything other than minority following fair enough they gain representation. Our system of democracy may not be perfect but until somebody comes up with something better I'll live with it.

Germany did about 70 years ago.

 

[hgblue]

Well I think that occurs because we have a bad system IMO. I don't understand why when we had the chance we didn't change it, seems daft to me. Nothing I can do about that though.

People were given the opportunity to change the system and there was no support for it, that's democracy, yes?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Well I think that occurs because we have a bad system IMO. I don't understand why when we had the chance we didn't change it, seems daft to me. Nothing I can do about that though.

Because the govt sent every home a leaflet just before the referendum on electoral reform warning of the dangers of PR and scaring us into remaining with the status quo.

I doubt Cameron could believe his luck when it worked and the one concession the lib Dems gained in coalition came to nothing.

Fast forward, and Cameron emboldened in using referenda as a tool to scare and coerce the public tried the leaflet trick again, and the rest as they say is history. Neither leaving the EU or not adopting PR would have survived actual debate, but the clown chose the leaflet drop and xfactor vote. He got lucky once.....

 

[blueparrot]

People were given the opportunity to change the system and there was no support for it, that's democracy, yes?

That's what I said. Think we should be asked a little more often though what type of democracy we want.

 

[hgblue]

Why should I meekly ‘accept’ a government that only 40% of people voted for doing what the fuck they want for five years?

Totally up to you, you have your free speech rights, you have the right to protest, you can lobby your mp, take to social media to criticise the government, on so on. Interestingly all of these things you take for granted would land you in jail in totalitarian countries.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

FPTP or PR?
We had the first but went with PR and I think it is far more representative of change in the opinion of the population.
Like Britain Ireland was mainly a two party system which had us stuck in a time warp of civil war politics. I think proportional representation played and continues to play its part in forming a more modern society in general.
There is a whole generation coming into the next election including my son who have a lot to say and it’s very interesting what parties are coming to the fore now as they have a very realistic chance of forming coalition alliances in the future.
Britain seems averse to coalitions as you seem to see it as weak government. We are well used to them for decades now and our current coalition was a solution by the two main parties to keep Sinn Fein out by agreeing to work together. That in itself can be looked at as undemocratic if you like, as it was clearly not what the electorate wanted, but even in itself it has swept aside the civil war history and made them take in a minority Green Party also.

I get the impression from Britain that you just won’t go for this style of democracy and there are pros and cons as to why or why not. But in your present system, I think you will be stuck in a pre war loop especially when it comes to UK problems that are there in the constituent countries and are not going to go away with your present system.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Totally up to you, you have your free speech rights, you have the right to protest, you can lobby your mp, take to social media to criticise the government, on so on. Interestingly all of these things you take for granted would land you in jail in totalitarian countries.

Don’t presume to understand how I’m thinking. I don’t take any of those things for granted, so you’re talking utter shit there for a start.

I’ve recently moved from the pretty much safest Labour seat in the country (Birmingham Ladywood, MP secured 79% of the vote) to one of the safest Tory seats outside the South East (Stratford on Avon, MP secured 62% of the vote).

There is literally no point in me voting in a general election in either. Total waste of fucking time.

Each MP will vote principally as their whips tell them to, not in the best interests of their constituents (especially Zahawi, who is an ambitious minister) unless those two matters happen to elide.

If you think that’s the best system we can devise, then good for you, but in my opinion tbe appalling state of our politics and the paucity of discernIble talent within it, even at cabinet level, is a direct consequence of this 19th century system thst isn’t fit for purpose, and our decline as a nation will continue as long as it subsists.

It served a purpose once, but it’s done.

 

[Pedestrian]

I didn’t say I don’t believe this country is largely run by the old school tie network. Just that the people who run the country aren’t anywhere near as important in the grand scheme of things as people think. We run our own lives in this country, the politicians just set the laws in the background that allow us to run our own lives around.

We might need better health care - but we need nothing as a nation to prevent us from being unhealthy in the first place. Running costs nothing, cycling is less expensive than owning a car, cooking proper meals with base ingredients is cheaper than unhealthy food. If the entire nation got up out of bed an hour earlier five days a week and went for a run or cycled to work, and cooked and ate properly, the health service wouldn’t be in the state it’s in.

Police might not turn up for crimes - but if we brought up our children as a nation to behave properly there wouldn’t be as much crime as there is.

Can’t afford something - then don’t buy it or don’t buy fifteen other fucking things they don’t need before buying the thing they do need.

People put far too much importance on the decisions of the govt to absolve their own failings as a person, when the reality is we run our own lives and should take far more responsibility of the things we do and the things that go on around us. There are some people who are only a few steps away from expecting their MP to be sat in their bathroom in the mornings waiting to wipe their arse for them after their first shit of the day.

Hilarious.