Are we really a democracy?

[blueparrot]

The problems occur when people don't get what they voted for, like Brexit and a Tory government. The basic idea is that millionaire and peasant, genius and fool, all get one vote and the losers accept the result. The fact that some losers can't or won't accept the result is not the fault of democracy.

Well I think that occurs because we have a bad system IMO. I don't understand why when we had the chance we didn't change it, seems daft to me. Nothing I can do about that though.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The problems occur when people don't get what they voted for, like Brexit and a Tory government. The basic idea is that millionaire and peasant, genius and fool, all get one vote and the losers accept the result. The fact that some losers can't or won't accept the result is not the fault of democracy.

Why should I meekly ‘accept’ a government that only 40% of people voted for doing what the fuck they want for five years?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I prefer to think as first passed the post keeps the nutcase fringes where they belong which isn't the houses of Parliament, if they have anything other than minority following fair enough they gain representation. Our system of democracy may not be perfect but until somebody comes up with something better I'll live with it.

Germany did about 70 years ago.

 

[hgblue]

Well I think that occurs because we have a bad system IMO. I don't understand why when we had the chance we didn't change it, seems daft to me. Nothing I can do about that though.

People were given the opportunity to change the system and there was no support for it, that's democracy, yes?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Well I think that occurs because we have a bad system IMO. I don't understand why when we had the chance we didn't change it, seems daft to me. Nothing I can do about that though.

Because the govt sent every home a leaflet just before the referendum on electoral reform warning of the dangers of PR and scaring us into remaining with the status quo.

I doubt Cameron could believe his luck when it worked and the one concession the lib Dems gained in coalition came to nothing.

Fast forward, and Cameron emboldened in using referenda as a tool to scare and coerce the public tried the leaflet trick again, and the rest as they say is history. Neither leaving the EU or not adopting PR would have survived actual debate, but the clown chose the leaflet drop and xfactor vote. He got lucky once.....

 

[blueparrot]

People were given the opportunity to change the system and there was no support for it, that's democracy, yes?

That's what I said. Think we should be asked a little more often though what type of democracy we want.

 

[hgblue]

Why should I meekly ‘accept’ a government that only 40% of people voted for doing what the fuck they want for five years?

Totally up to you, you have your free speech rights, you have the right to protest, you can lobby your mp, take to social media to criticise the government, on so on. Interestingly all of these things you take for granted would land you in jail in totalitarian countries.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

FPTP or PR?
We had the first but went with PR and I think it is far more representative of change in the opinion of the population.
Like Britain Ireland was mainly a two party system which had us stuck in a time warp of civil war politics. I think proportional representation played and continues to play its part in forming a more modern society in general.
There is a whole generation coming into the next election including my son who have a lot to say and it’s very interesting what parties are coming to the fore now as they have a very realistic chance of forming coalition alliances in the future.
Britain seems averse to coalitions as you seem to see it as weak government. We are well used to them for decades now and our current coalition was a solution by the two main parties to keep Sinn Fein out by agreeing to work together. That in itself can be looked at as undemocratic if you like, as it was clearly not what the electorate wanted, but even in itself it has swept aside the civil war history and made them take in a minority Green Party also.

I get the impression from Britain that you just won’t go for this style of democracy and there are pros and cons as to why or why not. But in your present system, I think you will be stuck in a pre war loop especially when it comes to UK problems that are there in the constituent countries and are not going to go away with your present system.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Totally up to you, you have your free speech rights, you have the right to protest, you can lobby your mp, take to social media to criticise the government, on so on. Interestingly all of these things you take for granted would land you in jail in totalitarian countries.

Don’t presume to understand how I’m thinking. I don’t take any of those things for granted, so you’re talking utter shit there for a start.

I’ve recently moved from the pretty much safest Labour seat in the country (Birmingham Ladywood, MP secured 79% of the vote) to one of the safest Tory seats outside the South East (Stratford on Avon, MP secured 62% of the vote).

There is literally no point in me voting in a general election in either. Total waste of fucking time.

Each MP will vote principally as their whips tell them to, not in the best interests of their constituents (especially Zahawi, who is an ambitious minister) unless those two matters happen to elide.

If you think that’s the best system we can devise, then good for you, but in my opinion tbe appalling state of our politics and the paucity of discernIble talent within it, even at cabinet level, is a direct consequence of this 19th century system thst isn’t fit for purpose, and our decline as a nation will continue as long as it subsists.

It served a purpose once, but it’s done.

 

[Pedestrian]

I didn’t say I don’t believe this country is largely run by the old school tie network. Just that the people who run the country aren’t anywhere near as important in the grand scheme of things as people think. We run our own lives in this country, the politicians just set the laws in the background that allow us to run our own lives around.

We might need better health care - but we need nothing as a nation to prevent us from being unhealthy in the first place. Running costs nothing, cycling is less expensive than owning a car, cooking proper meals with base ingredients is cheaper than unhealthy food. If the entire nation got up out of bed an hour earlier five days a week and went for a run or cycled to work, and cooked and ate properly, the health service wouldn’t be in the state it’s in.

Police might not turn up for crimes - but if we brought up our children as a nation to behave properly there wouldn’t be as much crime as there is.

Can’t afford something - then don’t buy it or don’t buy fifteen other fucking things they don’t need before buying the thing they do need.

People put far too much importance on the decisions of the govt to absolve their own failings as a person, when the reality is we run our own lives and should take far more responsibility of the things we do and the things that go on around us. There are some people who are only a few steps away from expecting their MP to be sat in their bathroom in the mornings waiting to wipe their arse for them after their first shit of the day.

Hilarious.