Colin Pitchfork

[OnlyOneUweRosler]

Has he not been punished and is in jail again because of his crime?

How do you work out that it protects girls being raped and murdered?

Does it still happen in the USA and Japan? Does it still happen in China?

Does rape and murder occur at a lower rate in the USA?

Crime occurs everywhere, the question is how is it treated? Is it punished severely? Or are the killers and rapists allowed to repeatedly reoffend whilst rich lawyers get money from defending the alleged human rights of the lowest of the low.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Crime occurs everywhere, the question is how is it treated? Is it punished severely? Or are the killers and rapists allowed to repeatedly reoffend whilst rich lawyers get money from defending the alleged human rights of the lowest of the low.

Most of the capital punishment cases in the US cost more than keeping them in jail until they die.

They cannot be put to death whilst appeals are ongoing.

 

[OnlyOneUweRosler]

Most of the capital punishment cases in the US cost more than keeping them in jail until they die.

They cannot be put to death whilst appeals are ongoing.

No system is perfect but I prefer a system like that to the UK joke system where rapists and killers have more rights than victims or society. One of the main reasons I left the UK years ago was its weak justice system and every time I read about the Pitchforks of this world getting away with crime it confirms I made the right choice. My only regret is the good Brits trapped in the UK with governments of both parties who only care about criminals.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

No system is perfect but I prefer a system like that to the UK joke system where rapists and killers have more rights than victims or society. One of the main reasons I left the UK years ago was its weak justice system and every time I read about the Pitchforks of this world getting away with crime it confirms I made the right choice. My only regret is the good Brits trapped in the UK with governments of both parties who only care about criminals.

Fair enough.

I disagree.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Crime occurs everywhere, the question is how is it treated? Is it punished severely? Or are the killers and rapists allowed to repeatedly reoffend whilst rich lawyers get money from defending the alleged human rights of the lowest of the low.

Putin says he is against lifting death penalty moratorium

A moratorium on capital punishment was imposed in Russia in August 1996

www.google.com

This isn't a bleeding heart liberal speaking, this is Vladimir Putin.

This issue has been discussed in society for quite a long time,” he said during his televised question-and-answer session. “We we witness such tragedies [recent mass killing in Belgorod – Itar-Tass], I can hardly keep from taking a pen to sign some documents to re-impose the death penalty. But this problem should be talked over with specialists, with criminologists. Specialists say that it is impossible to exterminate crime through toughening punishment.”

Your second sentence is painfully ironic, in the USA lawyers can earn money by appealing death penalty sentences (although a lot the work done for the appellant is by law students working pro-bono, or free under supervision). In the UK this specific market for legal services simply doesn't exist.

Costs | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

No system is perfect but I prefer a system like that to the UK joke system where rapists and killers have more rights than victims or society. One of the main reasons I left the UK years ago was its weak justice system and every time I read about the Pitchforks of this world getting away with crime it confirms I made the right choice. My only regret is the good Brits trapped in the UK with governments of both parties who only care about criminals.

What crime did he get away with?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

What crime did he get away with?

Possessing an offensive surname.

 

[west didsblue]

Possessing an offensive surname.

And the same first name as a certain wanker.

 

[west didsblue]

No system is perfect but I prefer a system like that to the UK joke system where rapists and killers have more rights than victims or society. One of the main reasons I left the UK years ago was its weak justice system and every time I read about the Pitchforks of this world getting away with crime it confirms I made the right choice. My only regret is the good Brits trapped in the UK with governments of both parties who only care about criminals.

Where do you live?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Where do you live?

North Korea.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

We have already been doing the thing you want in the 1st paragraph, sentences handed out for like-for-like offences have been climbing upwards for thirty years.

View attachment 30395


The 2nd paragraph was the system in place before we started giving time off for good behaviour, it didnt work prisoners rioted and each time someone commits an offence inside they have to have a quasi-judicial prison hearing or go back to court.

Both systems are already overstretched.

A sexual deviant cannot be reformed save for the chopping of bollocks and so the sensible approach with a double child murdering deviant would be to incarcerate it for the rest of it's natural life or partake of the measured drop. The measured drop is a very successful method as it ensures zero repeat offenses toward innocent little girls.

I cannot think of anyone in the history of mankind that has been executed and then gone on to commit more murder? It may not be considered civilised ..but its a non arguable fact that it does stop the condemned from any repeat offending.

Re the second paragraph not working. It would work if we built more prisons and incarcerated the non conformist element to even longer tariffs. Rioting prisoners to receive a whole of life custodial sentence in solitary confinement conditions.

The criminal element is not in control of the state .. rather the state is there to protect it's citizens and control the non conformist element by removing them from society.

Behave or be removed ..your choice entirely.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

A sexual deviant cannot be reformed save for the chopping off of it's bollocks and so the sensible approach with a double child murdering deviant would be to incarcerate it for the rest of it's natural life or partake of the measured drop. The measured drop is a very successful method as it ensures zero repeat offenses toward innocent little girls.

I cannot think of anyone in the history of mankind that has been executed by a state and then gone on to commit the heinous crime of murder? It may not be considered civilised ..but its a non arguable fact that it does stop the condemned from any or all repeat offences.

Re the second paragraph not working. It would work if we built more prisons and incarcerated the non conformist element to even longer tariffs. Rioting prisoners to receive a whole of life custodial sentence in solitary confinement conditions.

The criminal element is not in control of the state .. rather the state is there to protect it's citizens and control the non conformist element by removing them from society.

Behave or be removed ..your choice entirely.

How about Timothy Evans?

He didn't kill anyone before we executed him.

Timothy Evans - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As for your solution I can only conclude that you are either Pascal Sauvage (from the 1st Johnny English film) or there is a freak heatwave in Benidorm and you have spent too much time in direct sunlight.

It’s not even worth serious discussion because it is based in such ignorance.we already lock up too many prisoners, we lock up more than any country in Western Europe and are prisons are over capacity.

But sure lets try something that we already have plenty of evidence that it doesn't work.

Why continue down the road where we lock up more and more criminals when we could prevent a significant number of potential criminals from going down that route to start with? Or take low level offenders and give them enough help and support that they don't need to offend to support addictions.

 

[paulchapo]

Problem is the UK is run by people who don't care about community safety or victims' rights. This is true regardless of who wins elections. The justice system needs to punish crime, but it is overrun with staff who prioritise rapists and killers over families and communities. Unless that changes Britain will remain a crime riddled dump.

The staff who's job it is to try and make sure these people are safe to return to society I would say do probably care about communities and victims, but their task is to try and change the prisoners behaviour. If they can do that then in turn that will make those communities safer.

It's a tough task. I read once that early intervention is vital to turn potential offenders away from crime. Once they are in the system it's almost impossible as it's a slippery downward slope. It's all down to money though, to do this properly would cost billions.

If you go onto YouTube it is full of interviewers like Shaun Attwood and James English who predominantly interview ex cons, some of whom were extremely violent repeat offenders who served long sentences. All are now regretful about their past and remorseful for the hurt and pain they caused their victims. A common thread throughout 99% of these people's lives is they all suffered horrific childhoods. Abuse, neglect, beatings, left to fend for themselves, very little if any love and certainly no moral guidance. If they were "Rescued" from this life and placed into the care system it was often as bad if not worse. It was inevitable they ended up in crime and used great violence a lot of the time it was all they knew. Many give talks in schools to try to deter youngsters from going down the same path but it is very difficult to put an old head on young shoulders. Add to that books, films, music etcetera glamourise crime and it's an uphill battle.

I watched a documentary on Holloway women's prison and it was tragic. Most of these women had awful childhoods and were now drug users and petty repeat offenders. Lot's preferred being in there to the outside world as inside they were fed, warm, safe and had some form of love and care even if it was only from the wardens and staff. Some were crying when their sentence ended and they had to be released and quickly committed another petty crime so they could get back inside. As I said, tragic.

This is taking a wider view of the criminal system though. One other point is that it employs millions of people and makes some very wealthy indeed. What would all the lawyers, barristers, judges, police, prison staff and so on do if there was no crime?

Sexual predators and killers like Pitchfork I don't believe can be reformed and therefore should never be released as they will always pose a danger. Maybe at some point in the future medical treatment will have advanced that will cure their urges and psychopathy but until that point I fear they should stay inside.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

How about Timothy Evans?

He didn't kill anyone before we executed him.

Timothy Evans - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As for your solution I can only conclude that you are either Pascal Sauvage (from the 1st Johnny English film) or there is a freak heatwave in Benidorm and you have spent too much time in direct sunlight.

It’s not even worth serious discussion because it is based in such ignorance.we already lock up too many prisoners, we lock up more than any country in Western Europe and are prisons are over capacity.

But sure lets try something that we already have plenty of evidence that it doesn't work.

Why continue down the road where we lock up more and more criminals when we could prevent a significant number of potential criminals from going down that route to start with? Or take low level offenders and give them enough help and support that they don't need to offend to support addictions.

An excellent piece of deduction Bough save for the fact that Pitchfork was caught using DNA evidence then pleading guilty to all of the charges levelled against him.

Because viewpoints are different to your own Mr Hole then that does not necessarily make it an ignorant one, so I am appalled at your scurrilous early morning aspersion posted to forum and have taken the liberty to cancel your rock order.

If you lock up an offender for criminal activity then that criminal cannot reoffend whilst he is locked away and so society remains protected. All we really need to do is build more prisons for the non compliant ones to live out their days.

Whilst I believe in the possible rehabilitation of the offender, what I do not believe in is the cyclical rinse repeat return of criminals that show little desire for reform, with prison being the only viable solution combined with longer sentencing to reflect non conformity .

As discussed there are many socio economic difficulties that contribute to their actions, but society simply has to be protected. If they cannot behave, then remove them to a place of incarceration were they can no longer cause hurt/harm for a periods of time more conducive to the misery caused.

Sentencing is beyond the lax and it's high time for change ... Discuss.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

An excellent piece of deduction Bough save for the fact that Pitchfork was caught using DNA evidence then pleading guilty to all of the charges levelled against him.

Because viewpoints are different to your own Mr Hole then that does not necessarily make it an ignorant one, so I am appalled at your scurrilous early morning aspersions posted to forum and have taken the liberty to cancel your rock order.

If you lock up an offender for criminal activity then that criminal cannot reoffend whilst he is locked away and so society remains protected. All we really need to do is build more prisons for the non compliant ones to live out their days.

Whilst I believe in the possible rehabilitation of offenders, what I do not believe in is the cyclical rinse repeat return of criminals that show little desire for reform with prison the only viable long term solution with longer sentencing to reflect the levels of non conformity .

As discussed there are many socio economic difficulties that contribute to their actions, but society simply has to be protected. If they cannot behave then remove those elements to a place of incarceration were they can no longer cause hurt/harm for periods of time more conducive to the misery caused.

Sentencing is beyond the lax and it's high time for change ... Discuss.

So this case is beyond all doubt, but what does that mean? It doesn't mean there will have been no miscarriages of justice in other cases based on errors or misreading of forensic evidence.

e. g. Barry George.

How about corrupt officers tampering evidence and forcing confessions?

Let's change the facts slightly, suppose he wore a condom and wore protective clothing so he didn't bleed at the scene. The DNA evidence that convicted him isn't there to exonerate Richard Buckland.

It’s entirely possible in the modern era with greater awareness through CSI etc on TV and the Internet, that rapists who snatch women of the street are likely to make greater preparations to avoid leaving forensic evidence.

But we haven't removed the risk that the police may force confessions from innocent "oddballs", there will never be no corruption in the police force.

Ignorant because you obviously haven't looked up the average length of prison sentence compared to 10 or twenty years ago. I've given just some information in my posts.

Or how we compare to other Western European countries.

Do you think the environment within prisons is at all important?

People that rear animals know that they need a minimum amount of space per animal for their wellbeing, otherwise they might become stressed and exhibit violence and other negative behaviour and fight for social position.

For human beings who are returned to society, this is even more important, no?

Maybe we shouldn't put them into prisons above capacity, where there might be two or three in a cell, all sharing the same toilet?

 

[OnlyOneUweRosler]

Putin says he is against lifting death penalty moratorium

A moratorium on capital punishment was imposed in Russia in August 1996

www.google.com

This isn't a bleeding heart liberal speaking, this is Vladimir Putin.

This issue has been discussed in society for quite a long time,” he said during his televised question-and-answer session. “We we witness such tragedies [recent mass killing in Belgorod – Itar-Tass], I can hardly keep from taking a pen to sign some documents to re-impose the death penalty. But this problem should be talked over with specialists, with criminologists. Specialists say that it is impossible to exterminate crime through toughening punishment.”

Your second sentence is painfully ironic, in the USA lawyers can earn money by appealing death penalty sentences (although a lot the work done for the appellant is by law students working pro-bono, or free under supervision). In the UK this specific market for legal services simply doesn't exist.

Costs | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Putin has no moral issue with killing people. Difference is I prefer a trial with evidence first.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Prison sentences have been inexorably creeping up for the last 30 years and society seems far more dangerous than it was back then. There are certainly far more knives and guns being deployed today.

Whatever approach is being deployed it doesn’t seem to be working.

i have to accept that maybe this is it. Maybe, as technology develops society breaks down and becomes more violent and antisocial - pretty terrifying if true - maybe the only solution to that is an increasingly severe criminal justice system, but anyone who thinks that sentencing these days is ‘soft‘ compared to anytime in recent history, that is within the last half century, as many do, is talking absolute bollocks and therefore their overall view on the subject is also likely to be fatally flawed because their desire to punish offenders overrides their ability to analyse the subject objectively.

Personally I think it would be a retrograde step, and hugely sad, if we went back to a Victorian sentencing regime, and that we would have failed as a society if we did so, but clearly based on this thread, not everyone shares that view.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

It’s also worth observing, and wholly relevant to much of the input into this thread, that if Pitchfork was being sentenced today he’d almost certainly be subject to a whole life order and therefore the issue of parole wouldn’t be in play.

 

[paulchapo]

It’s also worth observing, and wholly relevant to much of the input into this thread, that if Pitchfork was being sentenced today he’d almost certainly be subject to a whole life order and therefore the issue of parole wouldn’t be in play.

A good point and thank God for that. Even 34 years later his crimes are horrific and his lack of remorse stark. He may not have got a whole life tariff back then but if anybody needs to stay in prison until he dies it's him. The parole board have the power to ensure that happens and I pray they now do so. It isn't being vindictive it's protecting vulnerable members of society from a still dangerous psychopathic sexually driven murderer.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

A good point and thank God for that. Even 34 years later his crimes are horrific and his lack of remorse stark. He may not have got a whole life tariff back then but if anybody needs to stay in prison until he dies it's him. The parole board have the power to ensure that happens and I pray they now do so. It isn't being vindictive it's protecting vulnerable members of society from a still dangerous psychopathic sexually driven murderer.

I think your analysis of him is correct, and whatever the merits or otherwise of his release, any doubts that have manifested themselves since that have to absolutely be resolved in favour of the safety of the public.