Coronavirus (2021) thread

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BlueHammer85 said:
Omicron has a "substantial" ability to evade immunity from a previous COVID infection, according to the first real-world study of the variant's effect.

The finding suggests the new variant could cause a substantial wave of infections, even in populations with high levels of antibodies.
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Worth adding that people with cases of reinfection have had mild symptoms, that’s the key bit of info for me.
 
True_Blue69 said:
Worth adding that people with cases of reinfection have had mild symptoms, that’s the key bit of info for me.
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If those findings get reinforced over the coming weeks, and the variant in general turns out to be less serious than Delta et al, that’ll be very good news. There would be a downside though in that a substantial increase in infections would cause a lot of chaos across many industries with people having to self isolate.
 
M18CTID said:
If those findings get reinforced over the coming weeks, and the variant in general turns out to be less serious than Delta et al, that’ll be very good news. There would be a downside though in that a substantial increase in infections would cause a lot of chaos across many industries with people having to self isolate.
Click to expand...
why self isolation if the symptoms are less serious and not putting people in hospital,it will become the dominant strain and we'l all come across it at some point so why not let it rip through society
 
The worry is we are seemingly hell bent on losing sight of what we all got told right at the very start of this.

At what point do we learn to live with a virus that will always be with us?

Talk of mandatory vaccination is a step way too far imo and I’ve had both covid jabs, had my booster and will continue to take whatever they advise me to take but very much so as part and parcel of living with it, not because I’m being mandated to.

Politicians have to start accepting what they told us all from the very start of all this.
 
marco said:
why self isolation if the symptoms are less serious and not putting people in hospital,it will become the dominant strain and we'l all come across it at some point so why not let it rip through society
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FFn958sXwAkEWM8.jpg

Tomorrow's cover of the Sowetan. Hospitalisations are lagging the steep rise in cases but certainly increasing.
 
blueinsa said:
The worry is we are seemingly hell bent on losing sight of what we all got told right at the very start of this.

At what point do we learn to live with a virus that will always be with us?

Talk of mandatory vaccination is a step way too far imo and I’ve had both covid jabs, had my booster and will continue to take whatever they advise me to take but very much so as part and parcel of living with it, not because I’m being mandated to.

Politicians have to start accepting what they told us all from the very start of all this.
Click to expand...
i think the problem is there are many that simply dont trust them anymore esp after the PPE antics, pub landlords getting contracts then Hancock groping that woman and now this xmas party stuff, to be honest the list goes on and on,ive delayed my booster only a week or so untill we know if the vaccine holds up with this strain if it turns out the vax has no efect then we go again with a new vaccine i suppose and start over, as far as being mandated i cant agree and would stand with those who have not been vaccinated its just wrong in this day and age but is there an alternative
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Omicron has a "substantial" ability to evade immunity from a previous COVID infection, according to the first real-world study of the variant's effect.

The finding suggests the new variant could cause a substantial wave of infections, even in populations with high levels of antibodies.
Click to expand...
Could you post a link to this study. I'm curious. I personally think it's too early to make such claims.
 
blueinsa said:
The worry is we are seemingly hell bent on losing sight of what we all got told right at the very start of this.

At what point do we learn to live with a virus that will always be with us?

Talk of mandatory vaccination is a step way too far imo and I’ve had both covid jabs, had my booster and will continue to take whatever they advise me to take but very much so as part and parcel of living with it, not because I’m being mandated to.

Politicians have to start accepting what they told us all from the very start of all this.
Click to expand...
No chance mate, they’ve flip flopped around yet ignored the rules they’ve set themselves.
 
True_Blue69 said:
Worth adding that people with cases of reinfection have had mild symptoms, that’s the key bit of info for me.
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“maybe”. Right now it’s guess work still. Signs are promising but no guarantees at all.

all the comments from doctors saying it’s mild also comment that they are in cases from under 40’s.

the WHO has said they have reports from mild to severe and need more data.
 
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Larry Stranger said:
Could you post a link to this study. I'm curious. I personally think it's too early to make such claims.
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It's being widely reported now

www.ft.com

Omicron variant linked to much higher rate of Covid reinfection in South Africa

First detailed study into new strain will alarm health officials concerned over its ability to evade immune protection
www.ft.com www.ft.com

“Analysis of routine surveillance data from South Africa suggests that, in contrast to the Beta and Delta [variants], the Omicron variant of Sars-Cov-2 demonstrates substantial population-level evidence for evasion of immunity from prior infection,” South African epidemiologists concluded in the study published late on Thursday. Higher reinfections detected recently were “consistent with the timing of the emergence of the Omicron variant in South Africa”, they added."



Here's the study.


It's a large data set, official expert body. Not peer reviewed yet as the findings are urgently required.
They note they have no data on the vaccination status of those who were identified as being reinfected, which will obviously be important in countries such as ours. To put it another way, this says nothing about the effectiveness of vaccines.
 
Gaylord du Bois said:
news.sky.com

COVID-19: Omicron has 'substantial' ability to evade immunity from previous coronavirus infection

Researchers at the National Institute for Communicable Diseases (NICD) warn their finding has important public health implications.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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Thanks for that. So first of all they say "Urgent questions remain regarding whether Omicron is also able to evade vaccine-induced immunity and the potential implications of reduced immunity to infection on protection against severe disease and death." So they are speculating at this point.
They also say "We find evidence of a substantial and ongoing increase in the risk of reinfection that is temporally consistent with the timing of the emergence of the Omicron variant in South Africa." This doesn't say that Omicron is causing it because the timing of Omicron has really only been 1 week. According to gisaid.org, South Africa only has 172 cases so far. So it's early days.
These scientists from the States say why at about why it's too early and that there are many factors to think about starting at about 20:50.
 
Summerbuzz said:
It's being widely reported now

www.ft.com

Omicron variant linked to much higher rate of Covid reinfection in South Africa

First detailed study into new strain will alarm health officials concerned over its ability to evade immune protection
www.ft.com www.ft.com

“Analysis of routine surveillance data from South Africa suggests that, in contrast to the Beta and Delta [variants], the Omicron variant of Sars-Cov-2 demonstrates substantial population-level evidence for evasion of immunity from prior infection,” South African epidemiologists concluded in the study published late on Thursday. Higher reinfections detected recently were “consistent with the timing of the emergence of the Omicron variant in South Africa”, they added."



Here's the study.


It's a large data set, official expert body. Not peer reviewed yet as the findings are urgently required.
They note they have no data on the vaccination status of those who were identified as being reinfected, which will obviously be important in countries such as ours. To put it another way, this says nothing about the effectiveness of vaccines.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. So this hasn't been peer reviewed yet. Some of it could be true, but it also says that they don't know the vaccination status of people. This is partly why we can't make conclusions since SA's vaccination status is so low. Also like you say it doesn't say anything about how effective the vaccine is against it. In my previous post I linked a video which also covers some of this. One of them says if it were more virulent, we'd see more Omicron at the morgues.
 
No way I support mandatory vaccinations. The government, the state, have no right of access to my body. It would be a breaking point to me.
Having said that, it's not quite the same as the Nazi's systematically targetting groups because of their birth identity, and justifying it with the most spurious and evil 'scientific' doctrine imaginable. Let's not forget the Einsatzgruppen started off life rolling up to hospitals and infirmarys with trucks, in order to load patients (the disabled, and those with lifelong mental health or developmental conditions) into the compartment at the rear, where they were murdered via carbon monoxide poisoning, the delivery delivered by a hose attached to the engine. In other words, the first victims of the Nazi's policy of employing systematic murder squads were the most vulnerable.

They moved onto murdering Romani (who were politically unrepresented and unallied, with no-one to protect their legal status. The communists were rounded up and murdered as threats to the nation. The "intelligensia" of Poland and other invaded nations (actually a group of people including local doctors, lawyers, and so on), were murdered as part of a 'wartime' policy that only happened on foreign soil.


What happened to the Jews took years. Unlike the travellers and those who lived hospitals and infirmeries, these people were your neighbours and colleagues. Unlike the Communists, if you knew them, you knew them as individuals with varied political views. They had status, social and economic, that befitted a group of people who had lived on German soil for hundreds, thousands of years. They were versed in the law, literate and politically smart. All that was visible. And it all had to be eroded, and that happened piece by piece. The public were systematically desensitized to summary justice, beatings, arson, hangings by the acts of Hitler's SS and it's forebears, before the ordinary folk began to be the ones throwing stones and smashing windows. Then they removed their right to property, and all protection under the law, the right to own businessses, the right to own property, removed their status as citizens of the country. They got millions of ordinary Germans to play their part. And only later, some time in the war, did they move towards murdering them.

To return to my initial point, none of these people, Romani, Jew, the vulnerable, were targetted because of anything they had done, or anything they could do. It was because of who they were born to, and the hand nature had dealt them. It was because they were not loved and protected. Then they said they couldn't afford to keep them. And that was the final justification offered by the Nazi's for the holocaust. Due to the war, they could not afford to keep the Jewish ghettos. They 'could not' afford to feed them. They could not afford to police the ghettos. Or build more Concentration Camps. They said they needed the space, the food, the water, the manpower, the resources. And that's why the murders accelerated.

So please do not make this comparison without hearing me out on this. The lesson I took from all this, was that, if society says it cannot protect the vulnerable, it means that fairly soon, no-one is safe. Because we can afford it. Or at least, I never listen to people, who have no interest in protecting the vulnerable, who say we can't. We're a rich fucking nation, historically, as it gets. Try. Try to protect them. Because it's always a silly game, saying which group can be forgotten about. Who we all of a sudden can't protect. Because as soon as we stop believing all our lives matter immensely, then we're on that path towards saying so actually I think they all should be got rid of. That is the origin of the phrase, 'Slippery Slope'. Because that's what we saw in Europe in the 30s. It was a slippery slope. And it didn't begin with Yellow Stars. It began with people turning a blind eye to the sudden reversal of society's percieved need to protect the most vulnerable. It began by not protecting those who could not kick up a fuss, who were not listened to, or represented democratically. Getting the Jews down to that level, took years, and did indeed start in many small ways. But it wouldn't have meant very much, unless the precident had been set, that there were groups who were simply a problem, useless, drains on society, and that it was right to dispose of them, so the nation could advance into a glorious future. I do ask that people think on that before they start making such comparisons between any piece of social health policy and Nazi Germany in the 30s.

Regardless, it was one statement, made in a foreign country, and amounts to a bit of a storm in a teacup.

There are many, many other avenues that can be exhausted.
 
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