Coronavirus (2021) thread

[cleavers]

Bottom line is we don’t have enough doctors and nurses that’s the major problem.

...and it takes years to train them, and those thinking of doing so, are looking at this shit, and thinking I might work in IT (from home) ;-)

 

[Bluewonder]

As illustrated by the tweet above, the “big problem” is one of the scenarios they model. Are you suggesting that if we get more restrictions, then it is as a result of a miscommunication between the government and SAGE?

I still think the most likely explanation is that the government are worried about the breakdown of the NHS. The Dutch government clearly are.

So they've simply got what they asked for. No I am not saying it is a result of miscommunication, I'm saying it is a result of a flawed and circular process.

They can be worried about the health care system collapsing but that doesn't make it a likely scenario.

Actually it probably is, because it teeters every winter, but that isn't due to Covid.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Jesus Christ, you (and the ones who have liked your post) really are absolute pricks.

There’s no middle ground with them. It’s either fully open or fully shut.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

From yesterday (17/12) self certification for illness related time off work (sick leave) has been extended from 7 days to 28 days. You do not need a note from your doctor if off for less than 28 days.

 

[bluethrunthru]

There’ll be hundreds of thousands of people who have Covid but aren’t aware of it as vaccines/boosters/potential less severe makes it nothing more than a cold.

Do you think they’re going to sit at home for 10 days over Christmas.

People just won’t bother getting tested.

Interesting point made today on the 5Live footy coverage - Mark Clemmit asked why was it that the lower down the football tree you tumbled the fewer games were being called off - they came to the conclusion it was about testing - PL -Championship etc teams will have stockpile of lateral flow test kits - in the 7th tier your probably rely on your left back getting a kit from the local Boots ...... people only test positive when they get tested....

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

...and it takes years to train them, and those thinking of doing so, are looking at this shit, and thinking I might work in IT (from home) ;-)

Can you not qualify via Zoom playing Operation!?

 

[Bluewonder]

So by the looks of that, Graham Medley hasn’t said the government tell them to model worst case scenarios

He said that earlier.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I'm not going to validate your self-doubts about having it. You made your choice and you'll have to live with the insecurity during the next lockdown you were told we wouldn't need.

we are not and have never been in lockdown

 

[RobMCFC]

well, you can pull someone into a lifeboat to save them from drowning. Doesn't mean their mandatory rule that you have to jump out of the boat as well should be bowed too when it isn't necessary and isn't proportional to the scale of the problem.

Like has been said, Omicron isn't Ebola, no matter how much some people seem to want it to be so they can have the authoritarian rule they want.

I don’t want authoritarian rule - I want people to behave in a socially responsible manner.

I’ve asked the question about three times in here tonight and nobody has attempted an answer. But hey, let’s ask again because somebody might be able to answer.

Why do governments want to force more restrictions on their populations? Is there some conspiracy theory that I can’t see?
The most logical answer I have is that there is a real possibility, however small, that health services could be overwhelmed.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think we can all agree that these new regulations have been I’ll thought out and potentially rushed through to bury other news.

It doesn’t mean that they are all right or all wrong.

It just means that even fewer people are bothering to even read about them.

This could be catastrophic or quicken our path out of Covid, should Omicron supersede Delta.

We’re going to find out the au natural way as they’ve not made up their next set of guidance yet and it’s a week until Xmas.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

you were fine to the last paragraph. There are the majority who don't want a booster who simply have doubts that having jabs every 3 months when there's no concrete, conclusive need or benefit to not be worth the potential risk. The other vaccines work, by well, working. You don't get jabbed for smallpox every 3 months because it, well, works.

The reality is people who have had 3 jabs are now trying to fawn their anxious consciousness off on people who haven't because they've taken the plunge with no concrete scientific evidence to support it, so come on and try and put it on normal people to try and rationalise their decision and make themselves feel at peace with it. All in the face of another illogical lockdown they were promised wouldn't be necessary when they had the first 2 of the same jab that lasted half as long as they were promised.

We get you guys are doubtful and anxious, but you've made your choices and you're the guinea pigs for normal people who want scientific proof, and a whole lot more than last time given we were lied to.

That’s a very mixed up post.

There is empirical evidence that there is a need for vaccines, the benefit is being seen in that at the last peak of infections before vaccines we were averaging 1,200+ deaths per day but now we are surpassing those cases yet are under 200 deaths a day, the need to have them every six months (not three) is because of the vaccine waning after that amount of time while the virus is still ravaging its way through the world’s population.

You don’t get vaccinated against viruses and bacteria every three months that weren’t particularly transmissible, killed most of the people it infected soonafter transmission it wasn’t spread much, and didn’t mutate much so it was easy to eradicate. And when a virus/bacteria has stopped being seen in a population that population is stopped from being vacccinated against it (for example, tuberculosis; when I was at school the whole country had the TB jab when we were about 12, but now only areas where there are cases are given that vaccine at birth).

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but Covid is everywhere. Fucking everywhere!

There’s also nowhere near, NOWHERE NEAR, the risk of having a adverse vaccination reaction compared to actually transiting Covid… I must stress this again… NOWHERE BLOODY NEAR!

There are annual new vaccines against influenza, nobody has ever had a problem with that before. And SARS-CoV-2, being a Coronavirus, is fairly similar to an influenza various to a certain extent, as it’s highly transmissible, there’s a long incubation period so it’s spread easily and it mutates a lot which is why there’s a need for new vaccines every year…. but where Covid differs to influenzas is that it is more transmissible, and it’s more severe in its symptoms and how many it kills which is why more people need to be vaccinated that against flu.

In the Winter of 2017-18 there was serious talk around the world of having further restrictions - not just in hospitals - with the very bad flu season we had that Winter (there were restrictions to hospital visitors in a number of countries, zoned areas to treat flu away from other patients in a number of hospitals, with a number postponing and cancelling non-flu related appointments and operations… and there was talk of it needed to be taken further into society in some countries).

Nobody has ever promised there wouldn’t be anymore lockdowns. Nobody. That’s just made up in the minds of those who like to be controversial.

Have you ever seen or ever been bothered to ever look up any concrete evidence for the need for the vaccinations we give our children when they’re born or given when they’re in school? Have you ever researched that there may be something to worry about with the Rotavirus vaccine we all have as babies and that there may be new ways of administering it? No? Why?… for the simple fact that there’s been no big social media drive to push divisions about it, but there has with Covid and you’ve been drawn into thinking there might be a conspiracy or that there’s something to worry about.

 

[cleavers]

Can you not qualify via Zoom playing Operation!?

I think some people expect that's possible.

What is it to be a doctor ? 5 years, 4 for a nurse ?

Any youngster wanting that line of employment has seen nearly 2 years of this, and can see the pressure (and risk) they would put themselves under, I wouldn't do it now if I was 20.

 

[Bluewonder]

I don’t want authoritarian rule - I want people to behave in a socially responsible manner.

I’ve asked the question about three times in here tonight and nobody has attempted an answer. But hey, let’s ask again because somebody might be able to answer.

Why do governments want to force more restrictions on their populations? Is there some conspiracy theory that I can’t see?
The most logical answer I have is that there is a real possibility, however small, that health services could be overwhelmed.

I don't disagree on their intention, but asking your advisers to model worst case scenarios where the health service collapses and using that to drive policy isn't sensible.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think some people expect that's possible.

What is it to be a doctor ? 5 years, 4 for a nurse ?

Any youngster wanting that line of employment has seen nearly 2 years of this, and can see the pressure (and risk) they would put themselves under, I wouldn't do it now if I was 20.

5 years plus then at least 2 years specialising, I think.

There’s a ton of money to be made as a doctor. Especially as a GP or consultant. Once you can buy the equipment to lease to the NHS, you can make a fortune.

It‘s mega stressful though. Especially now.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I don’t want authoritarian rule - I want people to behave in a socially responsible manner.

I’ve asked the question about three times in here tonight and nobody has attempted an answer. But hey, let’s ask again because somebody might be able to answer.

Why do governments want to force more restrictions on their populations? Is there some conspiracy theory that I can’t see?
The most logical answer I have is that there is a real possibility, however small, that health services could be overwhelmed.

It’s not a conspiracy it’s a seeming unwillingness to look at any alternatives or to look at what collateral damage we might be doing by enforcing restrictions again. Lockdown, for example, has not only not been encouraged before covid, it was actively discouraged, as were shutting borders and enforced quarantine.
Also, the BMA estimates that, between April 2020 and October 2021, there were:

• 4.13 million fewer elective procedures
• 28.62 million fewer outpatient attendances.

Anything that will exacerbate that by adding more patients to those numbers will also overwhelm the NHS, as will firing non vaccinated staff in April. If every decision is about the NHS not being overwhelmed this will never, ever end….

 

[lancs blue]

What is it to be a doctor ? 5 years, 4 for a nurse ?

My niece wishes it was. 6 years to become a junior doctor, more like 11-12 years to become fully registered.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I don't disagree on their intention, but asking your advisers to model worst case scenarios where the health service collapses and using that to drive policy isn't sensible.

Didn’t someone just post a tweet where he denied saying they used the worst case scenarios?

That suggests the modellers give all the potential scenarios to the government to act on, doesn't it?

That then leads us into Rob’s question. Why are the government continually using the worst case scenario?

 

[RobMCFC]

I don't disagree on their intention, but asking your advisers to model worst case scenarios where the health service collapses and using that to drive policy isn't sensible.

No, you are correct, it isn’t sensible, and that’s why it’s not the reality.

This government are far from sensible - in fact they are the worst government that I can remember in my lifetime, but they have also been given the biggest challenge of any post-war government.

However, I don’t think they are inventing a crisis in the way you suggest. It doesn’t make sense from any angle.

The simple fact that is upsetting people, perhaps understandably, is that crowding together indoors in the winter is a recipe for disaster. People are sticking their head in the sand and getting angry with the government and with SAGE and with anybody who suggests there might be a problem.

We all know the solution but some would prefer that the solution didn’t exist.

 

[Bluewonder]

Didn’t someone just post a tweet where he denied saying they used the worst case scenarios?

That suggests the modellers give all the potential scenarios to the government to act on, doesn't it?

That then leads us into Ron’s question. Why are the government continually using the worst case scenario?

He has changed his tune, perhaps due to backlash from dismayed public.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

He has changed his tune, perhaps due to backlash from dismayed public.

Could you point me to where he said he only uses the worst case scenario as a guide?