Coronavirus (2021) thread

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SWP's back said:
Immunity isn't quite as specific as you are probably imagining it to be. When you get a vaccine, your body makes a bunch of antibodies that respond to the antigen (in this case, the spike protein). These antibodies come in a large variety of forms that are all a bit different from each other. What they share is that they stick to the spike protein, but they stick to different parts of it and they have different levels of "stickiness". Shortly after vaccination, your antibody levels get very high. Then they naturally decrease over time… This is a normal process and not just a thing related to covid vaccines. However, the cells that make the antibodies stick around, and if you get a booster they are activated again and start dividing and pumping out more antibodies. A sort of refining process also goes on after boosters, where antibodies that stick better to the spike protein get selected for, so the quality of antibodies goes up after another vaccine dose.

So how does this relate to vaccines and Omicron? Well, to fully stop an infection from happening you have to have enough neutralising antibodies (the ones that stick well and block off the spike) in your blood to stick to the virus and prevent it from getting a foothold. Omicron has a slightly different version of the spike protein, so on average the antibodies produced by the vaccine seem to stick to it less well than to the original spike. But it's not an either-or thing, remember there are lots of different antibodies. Some stick to parts of the spike protein that haven't been modified. Some still stick, but are slightly less sticky. What this means is that you can get a situation where, if you haven't had a booster you might not have enough antibodies that will stick to "omicron spike" to give you protection, even if you might have enough that would stick to "delta spike" that would give you protection.

But if you just got a booster, you will a) have many many more antibodies circulating in your blood and b) they will probably be higher quality, so you now might well have enough sticky ones to protect you from "omicron spike" and prevent you from getting infected.
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read part a) and b) back to yourself and see how it differs in tone from the rest. You'll see where the doubts arise. What you say is similar to what I've read, but it ends like all points advocating a booster. If's, but's and maybe's.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Have you run out of crayons to explain with?

I did suggest it was a futile operation.
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I was at a loose end whilst the Mrs was watching the Strictly final this morning.

That’s finished now so I’m off to play golf with her. He can’t say I didn’t try to be patient with him and I don’t particularly like using the ignore function but there’s only so much poorly researched crap I can read from one person.
 
WNRH said:
So how do we go forward? There’s been a lot of posts from yourself criticising people, parties, decisions, peoples views but I haven’t seen any alternative views on how it could be better.
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We've boostered the elderly and vulnerable, so in my view you ask them to shield over Christmas if they don't feel safe, remove the isolation criteria in favour of daily testing for NHS workers and you trust that the booster does as its advocates say it does, and we move on, keep things open, remove vaccine passports globally and accept that some people will unfortunately pass away.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
we don't. We don't go back in life, only forward. Pre-2020 will never exist again.
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More nonsense.

It is almost inevitable that in time, the human race will adapt to this virus as it has done to all the previous coronaviruses which now only cause cold or flu like symptoms but which were once mass killers.

The challenge is how soon we can find more effective vaccines and/or treatments such that only a tiny percentage get seriously ill, and an even tinier percentage die. Then, we will be back to normal.

So it's not if, it's when.
 
Chippy_boy said:
More nonsense.

It is almost inevitable that in time, the human race will adapt to this virus as it has done to all the previous coronaviruses which now only cause cold or flu like symptoms but which were once mass killers.

The challenge is whether we can find more effective vaccines and/or treatments such that only a tiny percentage get seriously ill, and an even tinier percentage die. Then, we will be back to normal.

So it's not if, it's when.
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we don't go "back to normal". We continuously move forward. Society will not be the same again, the same way it wasn't when the iPhone came out, cars were invented etc. Whatever normal is, it will be different.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
We've boostered the elderly and vulnerable, so in my view you ask them to shield over Christmas if they don't feel safe, remove the isolation criteria in favour of daily testing for NHS workers and you trust that the booster does as its advocates say it does, and we move on, keep things open, remove vaccine passports globally and accept that some people will unfortunately pass away.
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This virus doesn’t just attack the elderly and vulnerable though. It attacks anyone.

You can’t just keep asking/telling people to shield. That is no life for them and a huge sacrifice just so selfish people can go about their lives as normal continuing to pass it around.

You can’t just accept that some people will pass away either. Of course that will happen but you can’t just accept it, you have to do everything you can to ensure that everyone has the best possible chance to survive it. Your viewpoint is someone who hasn’t lost anyone to this virus, I’m sure your views would change if god forbid you did or would you just accept it?
 
WNRH said:
This virus doesn’t just attack the elderly and vulnerable though. It attacks anyone.

You can’t just keep asking/telling people to shield. That is no life for them and a huge sacrifice just so selfish people can go about their lives as normal continuing to pass it around.

You can’t just accept that some people will pass away either. Of course that will happen but you can’t just accept it, you have to do everything you can to ensure that everyone has the best possible chance to survive it. Your viewpoint is someone who hasn’t lost anyone to this virus, I’m sure your views would change if god forbid you did or would you just accept it?
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but we can lock everyone down and put everyone through that misery just so we're selfish to protect a certain minority? Works both ways.

You have to accept people will die, it's the only thing we're all guaranteed to do at some point. What's doing everything? Because we can lock down for ever and they can still fall down the stairs. What's everything? They've had 3 jabs, they've had 3 lockdowns, they have masks, social distancing, vaccine passports, self-isolation, rapid testing, designated Covid wards. What's everything?
 
WNRH said:
Are all the other leagues testing players every day like the Premier League have been doing since Tuesday?

That might be the reason games aren’t being called off and not due to vaccination %s.
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Omicron hasn’t taken off as much in those countries.

If they’re lucky, it’ll coincide with their winter breaks.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
but we can lock everyone down and put everyone through that misery just so we're selfish to protect a certain minority? Works both ways.

You have to accept people will die, it's the only thing we're all guaranteed to do at some point. What's doing everything? Because we can lock down for ever and they can still fall down the stairs. What's everything? They've had 3 jabs, they've had 3 lockdowns, they have masks, social distancing, vaccine passports, self-isolation, rapid testing, designated Covid wards. What's everything?
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No, I don’t advocate lockdowns, they don’t work long term. I’m asking you for answers which seems to be that some people will die so get on with things which isn’t a great view.

You can’t be anti vax and anti lockdown.
 
WNRH said:
No, I don’t advocate lockdowns, they don’t work long term. I’m asking you for answers which seems to be that some people will die so get on with things which isn’t a great view.

You can’t be anti vax and anti lockdown.
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I've already advocated elderly and vulnerable having their boosters, particularly anyone who had AZ as the data wasn't promising from what I read. I'm also double jabbed. My issue is with the booster rollout, especially with the commercialised sales campaign that's been going on and the lack of definitive statements as opposed to "ifs, buts and maybes", so I'm going to hold off on having it.

Yes, I'm anti-lockdown. So we either carry on as we are, or we add more restrictions? I'm advocating carry on as we are with no further restrictions. I think what we're currently doing, bar the self isolation aspect, is the preferable course to take. Sadly, we'll end up in another lockdown and it doesn't seem to have any merit.
 
PannickAtTheDisco said:
I've already advocated elderly and vulnerable having their boosters, particularly anyone who had AZ as the data wasn't promising from what I read. I'm also double jabbed. My issue is with the booster rollout, especially with the commercialised sales campaign that's been going on and the lack of definitive statements as opposed to "ifs, buts and maybes", so I'm going to hold off on having it.

Yes, I'm anti-lockdown. So we either carry on as we are, or we add more restrictions? I'm advocating carry on as we are with no further restrictions. I think what we're currently doing, bar the self isolation aspect, is the preferable course to take. Sadly, we'll end up in another lockdown and it doesn't seem to have any merit.
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I don’t know how old you are but do you have the flu shot or would you when you get to that age?
 
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