Russian invasion of Ukraine

Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
War / invasion is looking more likely. Can’t see it becoming a nuclear war.
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Still be very bloody and messy though. Not good but sounds like they are preparing people for it now. Russia don’t have a great record of invasions in recent years. Afghanistan and Chechnya didn’t go well.

You have to wonder what America’s game is here. They seem to be inflaming things with their talk yet won’t get directly involved.
 
The Northern Baptist said:
Unfortunately, war in Ukraine is now inevitable. Buckle up comrades, this is going to get messy.
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I would doubt all out war - a couple of insurgencies - a bit of sparring and whichever side feels like they are going to take the heaviest hit will back off - my money is on Russia backing down when their armour and planes prove inferior to Nato's
 
Is anyone really buying this? For weeks the Russians have been ready to attack, again Americans have been told to leave... "Russia now have enough troops and will attack within days" (A few weeks ago that one). All sorts of propaganda.

Getting a bit bored of it.

We release our shit through the media, they release shit for their country through the media... Just get on with it and make the deal.
 
mat said:
You'll get shouted down for telling this truth in this thread Rasc.
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I take a lot of shouting down pal :)

Many on here will not realise it was Atlee who played a huge role in establishing NATO and it was the right thing to do at the time. The authoritarian Soviet Union under Stalin was a threat to Western Democracy.

NATO without any doubt played a role in keeping the peace between the opposing blocs. MAD assured that.

Since the fall of the USSR and the disintegration of the Warsaw pact, NATO has become an organisation looking for a role, the USSR were no longer there so it served as an arm of US expansionism. It became a tool for US imperialism. NATO morphed from being a defender of peace in NATO countries to an imposer of peace in non NATO countries. It started with Bosnia, which I supported, but that got the hawks excited and they saw NATO as a tool they could hide behind without using the name America. That gave them the confidence to go onto the middle east with which most would possibly agree has had disastrous consequences.

NATO, the clue is NA (North Atlantic) Georgia and Macedonia are nowhere near the supposed area of influence that was the original intention of the treaty of Brussels (1949) It is expansionism pure and simple.

Of course Putin is a ****, he is a far right nationalist with the fascistic traits you see across many parts of the west now, he is leader of an Oligopoly and in my opinion he shows the same narcissistic traits we see in Trump and Johnson, Russia are no longer trying to spread Communism around the world, they are insular Nationalists who just like the Faragists in this country want to control and make safe their own borders.

Biden as i did say in the USA politics thread is a hawk, he appears to be pushing the narrative of war. American Imperialism , who would have guessed. I despise Trump but he wouldnt have let this get so bad.

As for us, London is awash with Russian Oligarch money, its seeped into our country. how far its influence goes is scary,

I went to the Ukraine to watch City play Shaktar in Kharkiv, had a great time and they were lovely people, i do hope they stay safe and this madness is averted, because if it not i fear for the planet.
 
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Gorton_Tubster said:
Is anyone really buying this? For weeks the Russians have been ready to attack, again Americans have been told to leave... "Russia now have enough troops and will attack within days" (A few weeks ago that one). All sorts of propaganda.

Getting a bit bored of it.

We release our shit through the media, they release shit for their country through the media... Just get on with it and make the deal.
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If you are going to win in conflict surprise is the best tactic. Publicly displaying build ups on the border for the western media to lap up is hardly surprise, the nightmare scenario for both sides is when Russian tanks go over the border. Each side doesn’t want it so an out come which both sides find satisfactory will be reached.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I would doubt all out war - a couple of insurgencies - a bit of sparring and whichever side feels like they are going to take the heaviest hit will back off - my money is on Russia backing down when their armour and planes prove inferior to Nato's
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No way Nato will get involved in this. It will be strong condemnation, a few sanctions, thousands of people dead and an agreement. American arms sales increase, Biden happy.
 
urban genie said:
Putin has been threatening to invade for years but seemed to be a lot of sabre rattling but for months now biden has been talking up invasion more than anyone else and spoiling for a conflict.

Both are a pair of cunts and it will be the ukraine and europe that will suffer the consequences
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For months now Putin has been sticking tens of thousands of additional troops on the border for “exercises”. Thats got absolutely fuck all to do with Biden.

Biden didn’t write the essay last year (that Russia claims Putin wrote) going back to the history of Ukraine and The Russ vikings and that the origin story of both countries is the same and thus they go back to being rules jointly.

All this “This is Biden’s fault” “This is because of NATO” is absolutely fucking bollocks and totally ignores that there is one reason and one reason alone for the current crisis - a huge build up of forces on the border of a country to which the U.K., USA and Russia all signed an agreement to protect the sovereignty of.

Half you weirdos would have been saying “Britain has no right to defend Poland, Britain has an empire. Hitler just wants a bit more land. Chamberlain is struggling at home so wants a deflection” etc etc if this was 1939. It’s very strange.
 
Demytro Kuleba Ukraine Foreign Minister an hour ago

’In our call, US Sec. Blinken and I discussed joint countering of Russian threats. Additionally to military aid, the US is ready to provide enhanced support to Ukraine’s economy. Russia must have no doubt: Ukraine and its partners are ready for decisive actions to protect our country.’

Call me old fashioned, but if the country being threatened and destabilised is happy to embrace some ‘US and NATO imperialism’, then I guess that’s up to them. It’s their country after all.
 
I am in the older echelons on here and I remember this sort of shit was regular fodder - each side was testing the others out through the 70's , 80's and some of the 90's. Russia sending nukes to Cuba and the Yanks sending cruise to Greenham didn't conclude in all out warfare so why should this. Only the failure of statesmanship on one side or both would result in disaster and never forget that post Perestroika the Russian threat was found to be greatly exaggerated with a few good frontline troops and munitions but little but numbers of personnel to back it up ( always the Russian way ) - Russia has been skint for years - it is geographically huge but economically small - I doubt they have had the cash to have first class armed forces throughout

Edit/PS

Younger Bluemooners Google Brixmis to see how we kept an eye on each other
 
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nellyonthewing said:
Where's the United Nations when you need them??? about as much use a The League of Nations was.
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This would fall under the auspices of the UN Security Council... 2 of the 5 permanent members are Russia and allies China. There are 10 non permanent members several of whom are in receipt of strong Russian and /or Chinese investment/support.

( that by the way is the soft power we surrender by cutting foreign support )
 
BobKowalski said:
Call me old fashioned, but if the country being threatened and destabilised is happy to embrace some ‘US and NATO imperialism’, then I guess that’s up to them. It’s their country after all.
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Do people think they’re being edgy or anti-establishment in trying to blame the West for doing exactly as they signed a binding agreement to do (ie protect the sovereignty of Ukraine)? It’s really quite bizarre.
 
SWP's back said:
For months now Putin has been sticking tens of thousands of additional troops on the border for “exercises”. Thats got absolutely fuck all to do with Biden.

Biden didn’t write the essay last year (that Russia claims Putin wrote) going back to the history of Ukraine and The Russ vikings and that the origin story of both countries is the same and thus they go back to being rules jointly.

All this “This is Biden’s fault” “This is because of NATO” is absolutely fucking bollocks and totally ignores that there is one reason and one reason alone for the current crisis - a huge build up of forces on the border of a country to which the U.K., USA and Russia all signed an agreement to protect the sovereignty of.

Half you weirdos would have been saying “Britain has no right to defend Poland, Britain has an empire. Hitler just wants a bit more land. Chamberlain is struggling at home so wants a deflection” etc etc if this was 1939. It’s very strange.
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Where did I blame NATO, the majority of it's members are bein g sensible over this matter and not spouting rhetoric and encourag war.

you will find this ramped up tension began last spring when the DPR broke the minsk treaty and started fighting ukrainian forces again.
Ukraine complained that Russia who had influence could have prevented it, they also reported that Russias usual exercises in Belarus had seen an extra large number of forces deployed, though both Kiev and Moscow downplayed the severity of such.
Russia left more than the usual numbers of troops some several hundred miles from the ukrainain border after the exercises and a substantially larger force both army and naval in crimea, still Ukraine and Europe were not overly concerned, as for 8 years Putin has been taking the piss/pushing his luck over Ukrainian independence.

So Russia being gobby pricks and in escence pavment dancing around the border never actually attacking while letting the pro russian sepratists and political figures in ukraine cause trouble, again been the status quo for 8-9 years and Europe being concerned but relaxed it would not escalate.

It was only when Biden Started hawking a possible war and sent ships into the black sea did russia send a new and second larger deployment of troops and since he has shown a strategically wank foriegn policy, after all he has already said if russia invade he won't do anything but sanction them and protect NATO countries borders, there is zero chance of seeing a US soilder in Ukraine defending this soveriegn nation
Joe has form and has backed most pointless or hawkish military operations the US has undertaken for decades, he does seem to see conflict as a viable early option to solve issues.

Putin is a complete loon and **** and has caused the murder of thousands of Ukrainians and Russuan needlessly since 2014, and there is no condoning or letting him off the blame, however it cannot be denied Biden has ramped this up since late last year while other NATO members are trying to de-escalate.

I get why he may think this has been necessary, Trump pandered to all the cunts in the world and Biden needs to show America is still the worlds greatest power on the back of that, also Russia going unchecked is not a good thing for anyone, but in my opinion this has been an escalation that never needed to happen and both (but mainly Putin) men are at fault.

Also the we woulda have said don't defend poland stuff is nonsense, different times and mindsets, it cannot be equated.
 
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Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Still be very bloody and messy though. Not good but sounds like they are preparing people for it now. Russia don’t have a great record of invasions in recent years. Afghanistan and Chechnya didn’t go well.

You have to wonder what America’s game is here. They seem to be inflaming things with their talk yet won’t get directly involved.
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I think this ones a bit different. Don’t really know what to believe, but apparatus Russia might send in a full army/ large scale invasion.

Biden seems to want war.
 
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