How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Did JRM find any benefits of Brexit during his period as minister for finding them? Other than his enhanced wages for having a ministerial job of course?
 
dickie davies said:
My one and only comment on Brexit in this thread
It is a widely held belief in Europe that Angela Merkel is equally responsible for Brexit as she wouldn't concede on a couple of EU reforms
If she'd allowed Cameron a small win then there would have been no Brexit
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Widely held? Na, that's bollocks. Truth is, majority of Europe had enough of the ongoing special rules the UK claimed for itself. It was your decision to be out, then. Don't blame the EU for own shortcomings. That's another thing a lot of the continent does not like about the UK.
 
Dage said:
Widely held? Na, that's bollocks. Truth is, majority of Europe had enough of the ongoing special rules the UK claimed for itself. It was your decision to be out, then. Don't blame the EU for own shortcomings. That's another thing a lot of the continent does not like about the UK.
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It’s actually embarrassing how little people can own their decisions in this country. Blaming the French for the queues in the summer being the apotheosis. Like it was a surprise that curtailing of freedom of movement would…..impact on our freedom of movement. It’s beyond parody.

Own your fucking decisions.
 
Dage said:
Widely held? Na, that's bollocks. Truth is, majority of Europe had enough of the ongoing special rules the UK claimed for itself. It was your decision to be out, then. Don't blame the EU for own shortcomings. That's another thing a lot of the continent does not like about the UK.
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Same going on with the NIP now.
DUP were DUPED by Johnson into agreeing and now decide that it’s the the EU’s intransigence that is at fault and not the fact that BREXIT never had a solution for NI, as was pointed out over and over by everyone down here.

But DUP now holding everyone to ransom because of their own blinkered one trick agenda and the UK government gone missing on the issue.

It’s all the EU’s fault though.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Same going on with the NIP now.
DUP were DUPED by Johnson into agreeing and now decide that it’s the the EU’s intransigence that is at fault and not the fact that BREXIT never had a solution for NI, as was pointed out over and over by everyone down here.

But DUP now holding everyone to ransom because of their own blinkered one trick agenda and the UK government gone missing on the issue.

It’s all the EU’s fault though.
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The whole thing is a complete and unnecessary fucking mess.
 
I get the impression labour aren't ruling out a conversation at the very least, over Brexit.
Agree it's not the time to really poke that nest, but surely that nest must be of diminished occupation by the day.

Once this disgraceful shitshow is removed from power and our collective arrogance permanently subdued (yeah....will take a couple of generations) perhaps the EU will treat discussions more seriously.
I guess I'm wondering how much nose we're cut off of our faces before the question is posed again to the population (but this time with far more detail and real life data from our withdrawal)?

If an about turn is more healthier for the nation then it surely needs to be considered.
What as the actual number of those total leave votes by the way?
 
somapop said:
I get the impression labour aren't ruling out a conversation at the very least, over Brexit.
Agree it's not the time to really poke that nest, but surely that nest must be of diminished occupation by the day.

Once this disgraceful shitshow is removed from power and our collective arrogance permanently subdued (yeah....will take a couple of generations) perhaps the EU will treat discussions more seriously.
I guess I'm wondering how much nose we're cut off of our faces before the question is posed again to the population (but this time with far more detail and real life data from our withdrawal)?

If an about turn is more healthier for the nation then it surely needs to be considered.
What as the actual number of those total leave votes by the way?
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I think the only way we’ll be allowed to rejoin is if we give up the pound.
 
The problem, I feel, is that a lot of these Brexiteers don't care that people queue for hours at Dover etc and our exports are being crucified and all the other problems as they don't care as long as it doesn't actually put them out in any way as long as we got immigration sorted.

I am afraid Labour are stuck with that dilemma.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think the only way we’ll be allowed to rejoin is if we give up the pound.
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It is a solution that I never considered a possibility but UK fully integrated into Europe/EU would be a way out of this mess.

Not only the pound, but I think you would need to future proof your electoral system, perhaps with PR.

The fact is, the future of the planet is going to depend on more global solutions and Europe would be a lot stronger with you fully committed to it.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
The problem, I feel, is that a lot of these Brexiteers don't care that people queue for hours at Dover etc and our exports are being crucified and all the other problems as they don't care as long as it doesn't actually put them out in any way as long as we got immigration sorted.

I am afraid Labour are stuck with that dilemma.
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If you read the posts in the Ukraine thread, there are plenty of people who still have their fingers in their ears and shouting la la la very loudly around all things Brexit.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
It is a solution that I never considered a possibility but UK fully integrated into Europe/EU would be a way out of this mess.

Not only the pound, but I think you would need to future proof your electoral system, perhaps with PR.

The fact is, the future of the planet is going to depend on more global solutions and Europe would be a lot stronger with you fully committed to it.
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Can't see full integration for a while - still too many lunatic Brexiteers with enough prominence on the scene.

What might be more likely is some sort of fudge whereby remainers can claim we're virtually in and Brexiteers can say we're still out. Maybe some sort of extended version of the European Political Community idea Macron floated a while ago. Dickheads like Farage would undoubtedly whinge, but the more sensible Brexiteers might be happy to say we're in the EPC, not the EU.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
It is a solution that I never considered a possibility but UK fully integrated into Europe/EU would be a way out of this mess.

Not only the pound, but I think you would need to future proof your electoral system, perhaps with PR.

The fact is, the future of the planet is going to depend on more global solutions and Europe would be a lot stronger with you fully committed to it.
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Not in my lifetime I fear.
 
Agree that discussion will be some way off but that's what adults do and how evolution works.
Things are reviewed and made better despite tough choices (and pissing off what must be a dwindling number of those who were hoodwinked into thinking this was a great idea.

I've mentioned an old friend who tied his flag to the leave mast (and he'd lived on mainland Europe working throughout his 20's) - well that relationship has been somewhat tarnished (he had tbf gone full Mail/Express bingo....).
I also didn't agree that the country was polarised (I should dig out just how many '...of the people' actually voted to leave as it alway got quoted as 51% of the population incorrectly).

I'd almost forgotten that a while ago he'd be on at me to buy some horse hair shampoo that was being sold on Amazon.
This was from Ireland and was a miracle cure for baldness apparantly (all the reviews said do....how did Bezos miss this!).
Not at all dissimilar in terms of logical thought process.
 
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