Is our military…

[Bill Walker]

British forces are in my humble opinion the best in the world.

We should be rightly proud of them.

What do you base this on ?
I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just curious.
Why are they better than say the Japanese, Israeli or Korean etc ?

 

[Bluesince1979]

I've had quite a lot of unfiltered access of the army recently and I'd suggest you don't have to be a sexist, racist, generally offensive, right wing c*nt to get on, but it sure does help.

So, unfortunately it's a no from me.

Playing devils advocate.
Do you not think you possibly need to be a bit of a nutcase, a bit naturally violent, a bit aggressive, sometimes irrational, maybe a tad bad tempered, to do the job in the first place.

Also, i know probably 6/7 lads who have served and not one of them fits your description. But they all have an edge. Id 100% want them alongside me when the shit hits the fan rather than some nice chap who likes everybody

 

[Bluesince1979]

What do you base this on ?
I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just curious.
Why are they better than say the Japanese, Israeli or Korean etc ?

I think you need take the opinion of other armed forces. Certainly our special forces are generally recognised as the best

 

[Bill Walker]

I think you need take the opinion of other armed forces. Certainly our special forces are generally recognised as the best

I haven't seen other armed forces saying the British are the best in the world.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Playing devils advocate.
Do you not think you possibly need to be a bit of a nutcase, a bit naturally violent, a bit aggressive, sometimes irrational, maybe a tad bad tempered, to do the job in the first place.

Also, i know probably 6/7 lads who have served and not one of them fits your description. But they all have an edge. Id 100% want them alongside me when the shit hits the fan rather than some nice chap who likes everybody

Good point. There are a lot of specialisations within the army and the folk range from Oxbridge graduates to lads who would probably otherwise be dead or in prison. Some frontline types (paras etc) need to have certain skills/traits which are not that useful in everyday society, although I suppose the ability to keep a lid on them in public is a skill in itself.

 

[bluenova]

Playing devils advocate.
Do you not think you possibly need to be a bit of a nutcase, a bit naturally violent, a bit aggressive, sometimes irrational, maybe a tad bad tempered, to do the job in the first place.

Also, i know probably 6/7 lads who have served and not one of them fits your description. But they all have an edge. Id 100% want them alongside me when the shit hits the fan rather than some nice chap who likes everybody

I'm not sure they're the same thing. While there certainly are some people who are keen on violence, hasn't there had been a lot of changes to the psychology of the training over the years because historically most people found it quite difficult to point a gun at someone and shoot?

So, I wouldn't link being aggressive, or "a nutcase", to a culture that isn't keeping up with the rest of society. I've got close friends in the armed forces, who don't have those attitudes I described, and when I told them I was surprised at the casual slurs etc., they pretty much rolled their eyes, and said it wasn't a surprise.

Also, to be clear, it appeared that things have improved, so you'd hope it was heading in the right direction, just a few decades behind most other work places I've seen.

 

[Bluesince1979]

I'm not sure they're the same thing. While there certainly are some people who are keen on violence, hasn't there had been a lot of changes to the psychology of the training over the years because historically most people found it quite difficult to point a gun at someone and shoot?

So, I wouldn't link being aggressive, or "a nutcase", to a culture that isn't keeping up with the rest of society. I've got close friends in the armed forces, who don't have those attitudes I described, and when I told them I was surprised at the casual slurs etc., they pretty much rolled their eyes, and said it wasn't a surprise.

Also, to be clear, it appeared that things have improved, so you'd hope it was heading in the right direction, just a few decades behind most other work places I've seen.

Im not defending by the way. Im trying to understand it.
I know gallows humour is such a huge thing in the forces, maybe its important.

 

[Bluesince1979]

I haven't seen other armed forces saying the British are the best in the world.

Well you havent read/seen the stuff i have then. Possibly also a reason why a lot of aussies/kiwi/south africans etc join the british special forces rather than their own

 

[Fred_Quimby]

I am a FOC who served in the Army for 23 years. I don't recognise any of these "Do you not think you possibly need to be a bit of a nutcase, a bit naturally violent, a bit aggressive, sometimes irrational, maybe a tad bad tempered, to do the job in the first place." The people I served with were racist and right wing but that was/is the nature of the beast and they were not rabis nutters, just had leanings that way. I am certainly non of those things now. I spent some time in Oman with SAS guys and you would walk past them in the street and not know, when they lived amongst us they were just ordinary guys doing an extraordinary job. We were always willing to take on 'strike breaking' jobs like firefighting etc; we didn't do it because it was union bashing but it was an opportunity to get out of barracks and do something different.

I know I have been left a fair while now but I never knew any 'foreigners' joining the SAS and, as I say, I knew a fair few in Oman and also when at the School of Transport we trained a lot of SAS on diplomatic driving skills etc

What I have realised is that most ex servicemen tend to be far more organised than most people and are more willing to take on responsibility. I do realise that this is not always true.

As I say I am a FOC and have been left longer than I served so I may well be well out of date but I live in RAF country and they appear to be similar people to when I was serving.

 

[Bluesince1979]

I am a FOC who served in the Army for 23 years. I don't recognise any of these "Do you not think you possibly need to be a bit of a nutcase, a bit naturally violent, a bit aggressive, sometimes irrational, maybe a tad bad tempered, to do the job in the first place." The people I served with were racist and right wing but that was/is the nature of the beast and they were not rabis nutters, just had leanings that way. I am certainly non of those things now. I spent some time in Oman with SAS guys and you would walk past them in the street and not know, when they lived amongst us they were just ordinary guys doing an extraordinary job. We were always willing to take on 'strike breaking' jobs like firefighting etc; we didn't do it because it was union bashing but it was an opportunity to get out of barracks and do something different.

I know I have been left a fair while now but I never knew any 'foreigners' joining the SAS and, as I say, I knew a fair few in Oman and also when at the School of Transport we trained a lot of SAS on diplomatic driving skills etc

What I have realised is that most ex servicemen tend to be far more organised than most people and are more willing to take on responsibility. I do realise that this is not always true.

As I say I am a FOC and have been left longer than I served so I may well be well out of date but I live in RAF country and they appear to be similar people to when I was serving.

I admit i was totally exaggerating in my post that they are all nutters. I didnt mean that really. I was kinda playing devils advocate and suggesting that to be front line army you need to be a fuckin fearless and maybe slightly mad! And then its up to the higher ranks to channel that madness/bravery as required

And as regards to foreigners joining the SF. Read Bravo Two Zero , one was a kiwi.
Also watched a doc, and i may be wrong on the location but it may have been aiden, or Oman even, of a SAS rear guard action against ‘restless natives’ and at least one , possibly 2, were south sea islanders.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

I admit i was totally exaggerating in my post that they are all nutters. I didnt mean that really. I was kinda playing devils advocate and suggesting that to be front line army you need to be a fuckin fearless and maybe slightly mad! And then its up to the higher ranks to channel that madness/bravery as required

And as regards to foreigners joining the SF. Read Bravo Two Zero , one was a kiwi.
Also watched a doc, and i may be wrong on the location but it may have been aiden, or Oman even, of a SAS rear guard action against ‘restless natives’ and at least one , possibly 2, were south sea islanders.

Aden was probably the place in the 70’s and there was a tradition to take Fijians at one time, in fact when I was attached to 4/7 RDG we had 3 or 4 in the regiment and 3 of them were very good rugby players but these were the exception (apart from the Gurkhas of course).

 

[Bluesince1979]

Aden was probably the place in the 70’s and there was a tradition to take Fijians at one time, in fact when I was attached to 4/7 RDG we had 3 or 4 in the regiment and 3 of them were very good rugby players but these were the exception (apart from the Gurkhas of course).

Just checked. The battle of mirbat 72.

Ive read a lot about special forces and they 100% have had aus/NZ lads in the SAS . As i said previous, in BRAVO TWO ZERO one of the squadron was a kiwi

 

[Blue Maverick]

Just checked. The battle of mirbat 72.

Ive read a lot about special forces and they 100% have had aus/NZ lads in the SAS . As i said previous, in BRAVO TWO ZERO one of the squadron was a kiwi

Probably on exchange as they have their own SAS regiments, same as some of ours go and play with Delta Force etc.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I think the UK has a huge problem with folk thinking we’re still the jewel in the crown. The flag shagging happens here as well. Brexit was an example of that. This thread is also an example of someone clinging onto distance victories and forgetting the British army failure in Iraq and more recently Afghan. Using ex-pats in Spain eating a full English and drinking John smiths in the red lion in Benidorm isn’t the same as me meeting a lad in Denver.

The British army/ USA failed in Afghanistan due to leadership not the boots in the ground, they turned it from let’s get Osama to let’s rebuild a country in our own image, a country that has countless times rejected Johnny Foreigner and his ideals, no matter where they were from.

 

[Bluesince1979]

Probably on exchange as they have their own SAS regiments, same as some of ours go and play with Delta Force etc.

Just researched, anyone from the commonwealth or who has gained PR can join officially. If they are in the australian SAS they still have to go through the same process and tests etc.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

…the only substantial thing this country still has to be legitimately proud of?

There isn't a country within the 'civilised' world who wouldn't want the British armed forces on their side when the effluence hits the ceiling apparatus.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I'm reminded of this....

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"

George Orwell

We should bear this in mind.

 

[BrianW]

I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

(Rudyard Kipling)

 

[Pedestrian]

The British army/ USA failed in Afghanistan due to leadership not the boots in the ground, they turned it from let’s get Osama to let’s rebuild a country in our own image, a country that has countless times rejected Johnny Foreigner and his ideals, no matter where they were from.

The questions on why they failed in both Iraq and Afghan are many. The fact is they failed which has tarnished the image of the British military. I’m ex-army myself and have served several tours. I’d argue leadership is the route cause failure of any battle. Boots on the ground do as they are told and I’ve never witnessed otherwise.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Im not defending by the way. Im trying to understand it.
I know gallows humour is such a huge thing in the forces, maybe its important.

Many of the emergency services have the same sense of humour.. I met a couple from Soton last year and we're now good friends.. The fact that they are staunch City fans got us talking but we quickly realised that we have a similar sense of humour... Paul was medically discharged from the police after two catastrophic strokes.. He was part of a covert child protection unit in Hampshire and saw some serious shit

His missus was amazed how alike we were in terms of our dark sense of humour

I only did 22 years in the RAF but saw my share of sights that I wouldn't have been near in civvy street with four Falklands tours (post conflict), 9 months in Belize and two tours of Iraq before I left... I took part in a number of SF exercises and totally agree with another poster who said that you wouldn't look twice at an SF person in the street... They are the ultimate grey men (or women)

At Basra we had a vehicle maintenance compound right next door to the SF lads and some of my lads took great delight in firing leftover boiled eggs and apples from packed lunches into their compound at lunchtime with our compressed air tyre inflator... They would eventually lose their cool and come charging round in their buggies and threaten to "take us to the fucking cleaners"... Or words to that effect ;-)

#Goodtimes