Arsenal Thread - 2022/23

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Goone0304 said:
Of course gross spend is a better measure. Coutinho was at Liverpool before Klopp and then Liverpool got lucky selling Coutinho for that ridiculous sum. Klopp then went out and bought Allison and VVD for 80m each. Liverpool fans like to downplay the significance of these purchases due to the fact it was the Coutinho money that paid for them. But it still doesn't ignore the fact Klopp got to spend 80m on two players who transformed his backline, which is a luxury very few mangers have enjoyed.
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I still say you're most likely a wind up merchant. But I will humour you.

Forget Arteta vs Klopp and Pep for a second because they are on different time frames. That would disingenuously make Arsenal as a club, out to have been operating far better than they really have for the last 7 years because you're comparing 7 to 3 and a half years. If you would read the argument people are making properly, you'd realise you're arguing that a business buying assets and selling them for a high profit, then using those profits to directly improve their standing, isn't the more optimal way to do things than the alternatives, such as using revenue streams from elsewhere or taking on debt via loans. That doesn't make sense. The only thing to say, is that it's good when you can do it(and Klopp isn't one who deserved the credit for signing those players it seems) but it's not always possible. When it's not possible, you need to use other methods to stay competitive.

As as City fan, I hated the net spend talk as much as anyone and thought it was vastly overstated. "It's still Coutinho money" became a meme. The hypocrisy of their moaning about oil money was also missed by many of them(like some Arsenal fans regarding Emirates). Considering that Coutinho money was essentially PSG's "oil money" that they gave to Barca for Neymar. Some would argue that holding out for market inflating fees(far beyond what they were worth), for a player who desperately wants out of the club, is not "the right way" for football either. But that's too deep for most Liverpool fans. All of that is true but "gross spend is better" is just spin to make yourself feel better about bad transfer business in seasons gone by.

Lastly, since Arsenal still have a much higher gross spend than Liverpool over the last 7 and bit years that Klopp has been there anyway, I thought your main comparison was with City under Pep. Which is another waste of time by your reasoning, since most of the players Pep inherited from Pellegrini's team, either left on a free at the end of their careers, are still at the club or left for near enough what City paid for them. Some were bought under Pep and left for a profit but none left for inflated fees and he improved most of those players.
 
Kudos to Arsenal management for sticking with Arteta - and even bigger props to Mikel and his scouting department. They've assembled a young, energetic squad with team cohesiveness.

Arsenal - however - don't seem to be deep. I think that MNF stated that seven of their squad have started every single P/L game. Unheard of at the top level.

Saka - Odegaard- Partey - Saliba - Ramsdale... injuries to any of these key players is bound to affect performance.
 
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BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
Kudos to Arsenal management for sticking with Arteta - and even bigger props to Mikel and his scouting department. They've assembled a young, energetic squad with team cohesiveness.

Arsenal - however - don't seem to be deep. I think that MNF stated that seven of their squad have started every single P/L game. Unheard of at the top level.

Saka - Odegaard- Partey - Saliba - Ramsdale... injuries to any of these key players is bound to affect performance.
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Turner
Tomiyasu White Gabriel Tierney
Xhaka ZInchenko
Trossard ESR Martinelli
Jesus

We can still put out a pretty good team.

Naturally if a team lost 5 first team players, of which of those 5 are the clubs best players (Saka, Odegaard Partey), it would be detrimental.

Its not some massive insight.

If I could pick 5 players for City to take out, I would go Haaland, KDB, Ederson, Rodri, Mahrez. And in that scenario you wouldnt look as intimidating.
 
Goone0304 said:
If I could pick 5 players for City to take out, I would go Haaland, KDB, Ederson, Rodri, Mahrez. And in that scenario you wouldnt look as intimidating.
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Those 5 are key players. I would counter with the following - Alvarez, B Silva, Foden/Grealish for Mahrez are not too shabby as options. Rodri & Ederson alternatives are hard to find.
 
Metalartin said:
I still say you're most likely a wind up merchant. But I will humour you.

Forget Arteta vs Klopp and Pep for a second because they are on different time frames. That would disingenuously make Arsenal as a club, out to have been operating far better than they really have for the last 7 years because you're comparing 7 to 3 and a half years. If you would read the argument people are making properly, you'd realise you're arguing that a business buying assets and selling them for a high profit, then using those profits to directly improve their standing, isn't the more optimal way to do things than the alternatives, such as using revenue streams from elsewhere or taking on debt via loans. That doesn't make sense. The only thing to say, is that it's good when you can do it(and Klopp isn't one who deserved the credit for signing those players it seems) but it's not always possible. When it's not possible, you need to use other methods to stay competitive.

As as City fan, I hated the net spend talk as much as anyone and thought it was vastly overstated. "It's still Coutinho money" became a meme. The hypocrisy of their moaning about oil money was also missed by many of them(like some Arsenal fans regarding Emirates). Considering that Coutinho money was essentially PSG's "oil money" that they gave to Barca for Neymar. Some would argue that holding out for market inflating fees(far beyond what they were worth), for a player who desperately wants out of the club, is not "the right way" for football either. But that's too deep for most Liverpool fans. All of that is true but "gross spend is better" is just spin to make yourself feel better about bad transfer business in seasons gone by.

Lastly, since Arsenal still have a much higher gross spend than Liverpool over the last 7 and bit years that Klopp has been there anyway, I thought your main comparison was with City under Pep. Which is another waste of time by your reasoning, since most of the players Pep inherited from Pellegrini's team, either left on a free at the end of their careers, are still at the club or left for near enough what City paid for them. Some were bought under Pep and left for a profit but none left for inflated fees and he improved most of those players.
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Gross spend is a better valuation of how good a squad should be.

Net spend is a valuation of how much money owners are putting into transfers.
 
domalino said:
Gross spend is a better valuation of how good a squad should be.

Net spend is a valuation of how much money owners are putting into transfers.
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That's an acceptable outlook on it too. Although, I'd say "owners allowing access to the clubs coffers/revenues" since most of it isn't the owners own money these days. Even when they want to invest more.

I thought I was clear enough that they are both credible measures of how club is doing. I just thought the person I responded to was spinning it a bit more than he needed to. They're just getting a little taste of the talk City fans have had to put up with and resorting to an argument I doubt many City fans ever tried to make.

It's like I said, it's just nice if you can do it, provided a club is smart about wages too, they can save/make a ton of money that way. There's no point in pretending otherwise. It's hard to do though, especially if you want to remain competitive in the big leagues and Europe, or everyone would be doing it. Selling to buy has never been the only way to do business in football(from the very start of the league basically). People only started pretending different when the big Sky3's grip started slipping. The rags stopped banging on a bout it about 4 years ago, Arsenal fans are talking more sense too now. Liverpool fans will be kicking themselves for pushing the net spend trophy bollocks and giving FSG pass after pass, if this season doesn't turn out to be just a blip, but the start of another decline.
 
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Goldust said:
Bid made for caciedo l, would be a great signing for them.
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Thing with this kid is is what the wages he is on at Brighton it’s something like 3k so wages wise he would get an increase 10/15 times more so if they get him for around 60/70m plus wages the packages will be reasonable
 
Fair play to them - they're still going for it and not resting on what they have while sitting pretty at the top of the table. Been a remarkable shift in their spending policy over the past few years. I had Kroenke down as being the worst of all the American owners of English Premier League clubs as he seemed tighter than a gnat's chuff.
 
super_city_si said:
Yes good player. They're starting to address their squad depth
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True and on paper the new players look good. It don’t always work that way. Expect them to take time to settle or they could be shit.

Building while on top is the right way to approach the situation.
 
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M18CTID said:
Fair play to them - they're still going for it and not resting on what they have while sitting pretty at the top of the table. Been a remarkable shift in their spending policy over the past few years. I had Kroenke down as being the worst of all the American owners of English Premier League clubs as he seemed tighter than a gnat's chuff.
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Just come on to say the same.

Taking the bull by the horns and seizing this amazing opportunity.

I don't get the impression City are taking this season with quite the same seriousness.
 
M18CTID said:
Fair play to them - they're still going for it and not resting on what they have while sitting pretty at the top of the table. Been a remarkable shift in their spending policy over the past few years. I had Kroenke down as being the worst of all the American owners of English Premier League clubs as he seemed tighter than a gnat's chuff.
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So did Arsenal fans to be fair. Theyve said they want to be judged from when they had sole ownership from 2018. Don't know if that's an excuse or a valid reason mind you.
 
They apparently still want Rice in the summer, even if they get Caicedo. I know it's fashionable to say he's shit but he's really not(edit: lol didn't take long to trigger someone) and I think Arteta could take him on to the next level in that team. Next season is going to be even tougher. I expect Liverpool to sort things out somewhat, Chelsea have too many good players not to challenge, United are sadly looking like they aren't going away and Arsenal look like they want to a add depth to a very decent first team. City need to ramp up whatever they had planned for the summer, big time.
 
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They're clinging on to this "we played a second string they played a full strength" narrative. Ignoring both cup keepers, they had 4 players from their best 11 in addition to jesus who's injured. Their best 11 is easy to name, ours isn't, however, if you're taking form out of the equation, most of us would be putting at least 4 from walker, cancelo, dias, laporte, Bernardo, foden and alvarez into our strongest 11 for a big game.

The teams were rotated fairly equally actually its just there's a big difference in quality between our squad and theirs.
 
ninjamonkey said:
They're clinging on to this "we played a second string they played a full strength" narrative. Ignoring both cup keepers, they had 4 players from their best 11 in addition to jesus who's injured. Their best 11 is easy to name, ours isn't, however, if you're taking form out of the equation, most of us would be putting at least 4 from walker, cancelo, dias, laporte, Bernardo, foden and alvarez into our strongest 11 for a big game.

The teams were rotated fairly equally actually its just there's a big difference in quality between our squad and theirs.
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Indeed

Besides they were ineffective when they brought their better players on anyway. They didn’t have a shot in the last 30 minutes.
 
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