PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[nmc]

The other crucial point is whether Pinto was a Robin Hood whistle-blower, or merely a hacker & thief who sold his ill-gotten gains on.

Did Pinto REALLY hack City because he could?

Did Pinto hack City because he was truly concerned about our criminality? If so, why?

OR, did he do it purely for monetary gain? If so, did he hack City to sell-on the data, or was he engaged by a third party to get dirt on City?

His past would tell you he’s no Robin Hood he’s a dirty extorting scoundrel who the media have miscast for their own purposes.

 

[Maly]

This is really great advice. It took me a long time to realise it but it is liberating when you just don't engage with people who are provocative and stupid. The moral high ground is always the best place to be. I haven't mastered it with tailgating fools on the road yet but I am working on it.

Always remember, Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

 

[SilverFox2]

I hope I'm not being excessively hubristic here but my view is that the charges, while potentially serious in theory, are actually thin.

The image rights stuff (which was the one I was originally most concerned about) was being discussed with us, by UEFA, in 2015. I can't imagine it wasn't also known to the PL therefore, who were the FFP licensor. If UEFA felt we were trying to defraud them (in the criminal sense) then they'd have charged us back in 2018. They didn't though.

With Mancini's contract, that was around 1% of our 2010-11 revenue and about 0.75% of our 2012 revenue. It's hardly Enron levels.

CAS has already ruled that our Etihad sponsorship (a) was broadly fair value and (b) not funded by ADUG, but by the Abu Dhabi government. So I can't see them having much luck with Aabar, that might have been one of the time-barred sponsorships. And Etisalat, the other, had already been discussed with UEFA, according to the CAS output.

Be assured Colin that we all appreciate that your views on FFP and other technical areas are sound and well researched.
Hubris is left to the former untouchables who are gradually being exposed in the ongoing battles.

 

[Shads]

Balance of Probability?

There is a well conceived belief that in the 'balance of probability' there is somewhere within the Universe 'alien life'. That said however, and in the 'absence of evidence' to prove otherwise, you cannot say that anyone who claims differently is incorrect!

And that in a nutshell sums this up!

If City can produce audited documentation that proves none of this occurred, then despite any amount of others wanting to believe to the contrary, City will be found innocent; There simply is no legal or viable alternative for the panel, irrespective of who they may support.

We don’t even have to do that. The burden of proof is on the PL. If they cannot prove with cogent evidence that what they say happened did happen, then we can argue there is no case to answer. I am entirely sure that we will have the evidence available if they can even show a hint of it though.
Mud slinging definitely works in the media but is far less successful in a legal arena.

 

[Maly]

Understandable though. As City fans and for those of us in the legal field we have a clear Interest In reading it. Most fans of other clubs will not. Let’s face it most of the fans in here relied on us lawyers to read digest and break it down for them. The media will only take whatever out of context quotes suit their agenda, it is likely the only parts of the CAS judgment most fans know about is therefore what the media reports. It will be no different here.

@Ric might be worth having a no reply sticky thread about the CAS judgement broken down by one or more of our resident lawyers, if anyone is prepared to do it?

I’d certainly find it really interesting & useful

 

[Paladin]

Understandable though. As City fans and for those of us in the legal field we have a clear Interest In reading it. Most fans of other clubs will not. Let’s face it most of the fans in here relied on us lawyers to read digest and break it down for them. The media will only take whatever out of context quotes suit their agenda, it is likely the only parts of the CAS judgment most fans know about is therefore what the media reports. It will be no different here.

And we fans are very grateful to our learned friends for their invaluable insight. I'm convinced that by far the strongest knowledge base about FFP sits on Bluemoon. Also grateful that you tell it how it is, with a cautious optimism about how it might end up.

 

[dario2739]

The other crucial point is whether Pinto was a Robin Hood whistle-blower, or merely a hacker & thief who sold his ill-gotten gains on.

Did Pinto REALLY hack City because he could?

Did Pinto hack City because he was truly concerned about our criminality? If so, why?

OR, did he do it purely for monetary gain? If so, did he hack City to sell-on the data, or was he engaged by a third party to get dirt on City?

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

 

[Paladin]

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

I'll try and hack his computer. rui.pinto@gmail.po is it?

 

[Maly]

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

Pretty certain he hacked shit loads of football clubs including G14 hence the term ‘football leaks’, not just us mate

He also did banks as well if I remember correctly. Seems he’s an extortionist to me

 

[Jesus H Gabz]

@Ric might be worth having a no reply sticky thread about the CAS judgement broken down by one or more of our resident lawyers, if anyone is prepared to do it?

I’d certainly find it really interesting & useful

Don’t make it easy for the peeping press, they need to read 15,000 posts like the rest of us :)

 

[Dribble]

His past would tell you he’s no Robin Hood he’s a dirty extorting scoundrel who the media have miscast for their own purposes.

And there lies my bafflement.

It's like a burglar robs your house & finds bank statements & a book on tax avoidance. He gets caught & the victim is questioned & accused of looking into tax loopholes (albeit there's zero evidence the victim went through with it), but everyone forgets about the thief & that there's an actual victim of his crime. #UnFuckinBeLIEvable

 

[Chi-town blues]

I'm really struggling with the idea that expert opinion evidence would be enough for the PL to succeed on those charges. EG, you put all the papers in the case in front of Deloittes (say) and they say "look at this , this and this, BDO got conned." But BDO say "no we didn't" and E & Y say "we agree with BDO". How can you possibly say the accounts aren't true and fair when two leading firms of accountants say in their opinion that they are? You would be saying that City and Etihad weren't entitled to rely on their own auditors, which is plainly nonsense.

It seems to me these charges needs direct evidence of collusion. I can't see how the PL make a charge of deliberate falsification of the accounts stick unless they have evidence from someone on the inside saying "I know the accounts say X but what actually happened was Y."

That isn't going to happen on the basis of the Der Spiegel emails, so unless the PL have something we don't know about, I'm baffled about why they have made such absolutely devastating accusations with the square root of fuck all to justify them.

Balance of probability = square root of fuck all to the power of infinity .

 

[HelloCity]

Don’t know if anyone has said but I used to have a shred of respect for True Geordie, biggest game of the season Arsenal vs City and he has no city fan on. Show has gone down hill for various reasons… brings on Craig from Anfield “AGENDA”. No city fan to talk about charges while, they talk with absolutely no idea what they’re on about, this well I’m not gonna say what Craig is I think we all know, abysmal.

Stop linking this shite.

 

[M12Blue]

Don’t really understand how anyone could be in the ref’s ear apart from the match officials and Stockley Park. And could this voice have been dubbed on afterwards to make the recording “interesting”?

Was there not at some point previously a non match official in the var box, someone associated with PL who shouldn’t have been there. I may be wrong but it does suggest 3rd party involvement in var is possible.

 

[Dribble]

This - as far as I know - has never been answered.
Let's face it, if he wanted to hack a club for the exposure or for blackmail/monetary gain, why City? Surely the G14 clubs would have been a better target?
He's obviously been hired by somebody to target us specifically - I don't believe it was random... we need to find out who!

Why isn't more being made of this? Surely we must be able to get to him & offer a financial incentive for proof he was hired by a hostile party to hack City?

He either hacked us with the intent of selling on the data, blackmailing us, or he was hired to hack us. Either way, I'd want answers... \0/

 

[dublinblue12]

Don’t know if anyone has said but I used to have a shred of respect for True Geordie, biggest game of the season Arsenal vs City and he has no city fan on. Show has gone down hill for various reasons… brings on Craig from Anfield “AGENDA”. No city fan to talk about charges while, they talk with absolutely no idea what they’re on about, this well I’m not gonna say what Craig is I think we all know, abysmal.

If anyone like me is thinking of watching in the hope that Craig ends up crying by the end of it he doesn't unfortunately, though he looks like he is coming close at times. The outrage is beautiful but I agree with previous poster, stop sharing and giving them a pay day

 

[journolud]

cockfosters station after last nights game there was a bunch of city fans singing and joyful one song we'll cheat when we want to lots of laughter some arsenal fans started shouting comments to which another arsenal fan shut them up and said city just doing what every club even we have done and good luck to them,he was met with little muttering but most agreed with him

Wouldn’t put it past the PL to use our chanting of this as an admission of guilt. Could be the strongest evidence they have

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Don’t know if anyone has said but I used to have a shred of respect for True Geordie, biggest game of the season Arsenal vs City and he has no city fan on. Show has gone down hill for various reasons… brings on Craig from Anfield “AGENDA”. No city fan to talk about charges while, they talk with absolutely no idea what they’re on about, this well I’m not gonna say what Craig is I think we all know, abysmal.

Look how giddy the plastic dipper is. It’s actually a balanced video, although not once did any of them suggest we may be innocent.

 

[argyle]

Don’t really understand how anyone could be in the ref’s ear apart from the match officials and Stockley Park. And could this voice have been dubbed on afterwards to make the recording “interesting”?

The likelihood is it didn't happen and isn't true.

 

[Metalartin]

Look how giddy the plastic dipper is. It’s actually a balanced video, although not once did any of them suggest we may be innocent.

I wouldn't exactly call that balanced. I'd say it was just not as over the top, as it normally is.

"They didn't prove their innocence, it was just time-barred", "They don't have the worldwide reach for their sponsorship values", "Pep only got aggressive because he knows", "They can't fill their stadium", "They are going to get CGI fans in next". All still nonsense.

They didn't even have a City fan on there, unless that was edited out. It's basically an echo chamber, exchanging unfounded myths and misinformation that they love the sound of because it conforms their biases. What it also is, is a table full of sweaty blokes, smelling their own farts and self gratifying.

True Geordie knows he's a hypocrite, not just on the Newcastle ownership(the "loophole" Saudi found to buy the club) and how he's loving that. Also, because of recent events, he knows full well how people can use the court of public opinion(even if it's nonsense, get people riled up enough and you can get a reaction) against you and cause some real damage. If you don't know the full story, it doesn't matter too much. Just take notice of who's not there on the Kick-Off anymore(sponsors and the usual guests who have gone elsewhere to start their own).