PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[Dirty Harry]

I think it’s clear that the process hasn’t been fair, shouldn’t be too hard to prove.

Problem with that is if the people you’re trying to prove it to are pretty much judge, jury and executioner :-S.

 

[Maly]

They took 3 of our scouting staff and they used the log in details of someone that still worked for us, no "hacking" as such took place. Just unauthorised access (and I'm still not accepting that they're one and the same :) ) over an 8 month period.

What you’ve just described, is hacking mate. Unauthorised access is hacking, regardless of what you accept or don’t accept :)

 

[cheekybids]

What you’ve just described, is hacking mate. Unauthorised access is hacking, regardless of what you accept or don’t accept :)

It’s not using dynamite that makes you a bank robber but the stealing of money ;)

 

[Maly]

You are probably right as to how the UEFA nominee how the City nominee voted but we simply don’t know but on that basis what in effect is being said is CAS outcomes are decided on one persons views

The PL panel will be as close to independent as is possible and I like everyone that is expressing an opinion has absolutely no idea as to the strength of the PLs case nor is it remotely possible to second guess how the panel will reach the point on the balance of probability but and here’s something that I hadn’t thought about till it was mentioned yesterday everyone attending, and probably giving evidence, will have English as their first language and will be experienced in and mainly trained in English law as opposed to Swiss .

Put all that together and, well I am back where I started !

Part in bold is completely irrelevant bud

 

[domalino]

Speaking from experience most big multinational organisations are structured in an odd way on paper

I worked for one of the ten biggest organisations in the world and we had an entire team of people looking after things like this. Even taking advantage of currency fluctuations within the cash in the group of companies because of this kind of organisational design. It doesn’t necessarily point to wrongdoing.

Another reason could be the lower tax paid in the BVI

This kind of stuff was discussed in the month and 3,000 comments since I posted that! Not sure it’s worth reviving.

 

[Chris in London]

Well, the club claims otherwise, and publicly neither side has proven either way, so it depends who you believe.

According to the club, we sent them everything they asked for, practically bent over backwards whilst their goons snooped through our private and often sensitive documents

It doesn’t depend on who you believe.

There is no doubt we initially refused to cooperate. That’s why there was an arbitration ruling against us, an appeal to the High Court and a further appeal to the court of appeal. This is material that has been publicly available for over 18 months.

Since we lost those appeals there is no doubt we have cooperated with the PL inquiry. The disclosure we have provided would apparently fill a skip. That does not mean that we were not initially guilty of a failure to cooperate

 

[SilverFox2]

Problem with that is if the people you’re trying to prove it to are pretty much judge, jury and executioner :-S.

Correct but surely displaying their unfairness in what is supposed to be a fair process proves the point that they are unfit for purpose.
They should not be showing a bias towards any Party if they want to show a Gov Regulator is not needed.

 

[birchwoodgingerste]

It doesn’t depend on who you believe.

There is no doubt we initially refused to cooperate. That’s why there was an arbitration ruling against us, an appeal to the High Court and a further appeal to the court of appeal. This is material that has been publicly available for over 18 months.

Since we lost those appeals there is no doubt we have cooperated with the PL inquiry. The disclosure we have provided would apparently fill a skip. That does not mean that we were not initially guilty of a failure to cooperate

So once we filled a skip with the evidence we then let the pl inquiry take place is that correct!:))

 

[Blueknows]

Well, the club claims otherwise, and publicly neither side has proven either way, so it depends who you believe.

According to the club, we sent them everything they asked for, practically bent over backwards whilst their goons snooped through our private and often sensitive documents

Our main gripe is that we provided uefa with the info they wanted and as soon as we submitted our accounts they moved the goalposts

 

[give it to gordon]

I still dont understand on what grounds the investigation was instigated.

What made the pl think City were up to no good. Why didnt the pl investigate a decade ago.

I am just a simple City fan who cant understand why other pl clubs arent investigated.

Teams like liverpool dody shirt sponsor, bullshit about developing Anfield. Leicester sponsor by the owner, utd with its books in the Carmen Islands. The list goes on.

I know people will respond it's the cartel, its racist etc. But seriously I dont see how these charges can be made when the pl turns a blind eye to other clubs

City are being charged by a corrupt organisation its pathetic.

In any other business I can operate to make it a success and if my rivals cant compete tough. Yet in football rules are put in place to stop this. That isnt fair trade. The old business gang up to bully you out. This is what the pl are doing behaving like bullies egged on by the American owned clubs who are millions in debt.

When City clear their name, they cant really sue the pl because that hurts the brand that City are in. Its bonkers.

The whole thing is clearly a witchhunt, we cant go to CAS, what's all that about. That in itself smells of corruption, no right of appeal, it's a closed shop run by our rivals.

I know I repeat myself but it just fucking annoys me that it's clearly a set up a witchhunt yet no discuss it. No calls out the pl or the American clubs or the hateful 8. I reckon if the pl investigate the hateful 8 their would find more on them than City.

It fucking stinks

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Our main gripe is that we provided uefa with the info they wanted and as soon as we submitted our accounts they moved the goalposts

I think that was for the first time around, not the one that went to CAS.

From what others have said, the goalpost shift meant we went from missing the FFP limits by 'some' to missing by 'a lot'.

 

[SilverFox2]

I still dont understand on what grounds the investigation was instigated.

What made the pl think City were up to no good. Why didnt the pl investigate a decade ago.

I am just a simple City fan who cant understand why other pl clubs arent investigated.

Teams like liverpool dody shirt sponsor, bullshit about developing Anfield. Leicester sponsor by the owner, utd with its books in the Carmen Islands. The list goes on.

I know people will respond it's the cartel, its racist etc. But seriously I dont see how these charges can be made when the pl turns a blind eye to other clubs

City are being charged by a corrupt organisation its pathetic.

In any other business I can operate to make it a success and if my rivals cant compete tough. Yet in football rules are put in place to stop this. That isnt fair trade. The old business gang up to bully you out. This is what the pl are doing behaving like bullies egged on by the American owned clubs who are millions in debt.

When City clear their name, they cant really sue the pl because that hurts the brand that City are in. Its bonkers.

The whole thing is clearly a witchhunt, we cant go to CAS, what's all that about. That in itself smells of corruption, no right of appeal, it's a closed shop run by our rivals.

I know I repeat myself but it just fucking annoys me that it's clearly a set up a witchhunt yet no discuss it. No calls out the pl or the American clubs or the hateful 8. I reckon if the pl investigate the hateful 8 their would find more on them than City.

It fucking stinks

Of course it stinks.

Makes you wonder why our main owner wanted to join an Organization that was obviously a cartel.

The answer in my opinion is that it is an investment from his personal point of view and a chance to publicize AD from a political aspect.

Both of these objectives would probably strike fear into the cosy top table and their bias and retaliation to his provocation has since reached today's proportions.
Turns out they were 100 percent right about his threat to their financial arrangements by continuing to invest and we as fans got a Club that proved our long term support was eventually worthwhile.

 

[give it to gordon]

Of course it stinks.

Makes you wonder why our main owner wanted to join an Organization that was obviously a cartel.

The answer in my opinion is that it is an investment from his personal point of view and a chance to publicize AD from a political aspect.

Both of these objectives would probably strike fear into the cosy top table and their bias and retaliation to his provocation has since reached today's proportions.
Turns out they were 100 percent right about his threat to their financial arrangements by continuing to invest and we as fans got a Club that proved our long term support was eventually worthwhile.

Agree

I still dont understand how it is legal for a cartel to pick on one member of the pl. My simple brain just yells 'its bollocks, it cant be legal to pick on one club when the cartel clubs, hateful 8 are more guilty'.

It's as clear as day what's going on. I dont understand how an outside body hasnt put a stop to this witchhunt. PL is big business but is run by a cartel I thought it was illegal to have cartels in the UK .
That's why any big take over goes in front of a outside committee to make sure it's good for the public and businesses. Why is football not govern the same ?

I would have though having a club sponsored by a money laundering gun running bank would be bad for the PL clearly it isnt !

 

[Prophet of Doom]

I still dont understand on what grounds the investigation was instigated.

What made the pl think City were up to no good. Why didnt the pl investigate a decade ago.

I am just a simple City fan who cant understand why other pl clubs arent investigated.

Teams like liverpool dody shirt sponsor, bullshit about developing Anfield. Leicester sponsor by the owner, utd with its books in the Carmen Islands. The list goes on.

I know people will respond it's the cartel, its racist etc. But seriously I dont see how these charges can be made when the pl turns a blind eye to other clubs

City are being charged by a corrupt organisation its pathetic.

In any other business I can operate to make it a success and if my rivals cant compete tough. Yet in football rules are put in place to stop this. That isnt fair trade. The old business gang up to bully you out. This is what the pl are doing behaving like bullies egged on by the American owned clubs who are millions in debt.

When City clear their name, they cant really sue the pl because that hurts the brand that City are in. Its bonkers.

The whole thing is clearly a witchhunt, we cant go to CAS, what's all that about. That in itself smells of corruption, no right of appeal, it's a closed shop run by our rivals.

I know I repeat myself but it just fucking annoys me that it's clearly a set up a witchhunt yet no discuss it. No calls out the pl or the American clubs or the hateful 8. I reckon if the pl investigate the hateful 8 their would find more on them than City.

It fucking stinks

We are more than a decade too late to start moaning about how unfair FFP is or how the rules of the PL don’t seem right.

We are being charged because a load of hacked emails made it look like we were cheating and our rivals have campaigned to get us charged.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Of course it stinks.

Makes you wonder why our main owner wanted to join an Organization that was obviously a cartel.

The answer in my opinion is that it is an investment from his personal point of view and a chance to publicize AD from a political aspect.

Both of these objectives would probably strike fear into the cosy top table and their bias and retaliation to his provocation has since reached today's proportions.
Turns out they were 100 percent right about his threat to their financial arrangements by continuing to invest and we as fans got a Club that proved our long term support was eventually worthwhile.

It was probably not an obvious cooperative at the time - Hicks & Gillette had just bought Liverpool, Arsenal had split ownership, and ENIC/Lewis/Levy hadn't got sole control of Spurs either (I think).

 

[give it to gordon]

We are more than a decade too late to start moaning about how unfair FFP is or how the rules of the PL don’t seem right.

We are being charged because a load of hacked emails made it look like we were cheating and our rivals have campaigned to get us charged.

So why hasnt someone gone though these millions of emails on other clubs ? Surely the dippers would emails about hacking our pc's.
Why just City that in itself is clearly wrong and makes the case weak in my eyes.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Agree

I still dont understand how it is legal for a cartel to pick on one member of the pl. My simple brain just yells 'its bollocks, it cant be legal to pick on one club when the cartel clubs, hateful 8 are more guilty'.

It's as clear as day what's going on. I dont understand how an outside body hasnt put a stop to this witchhunt. PL is big business but is run by a cartel I thought it was illegal to have cartels in the UK .
That's why any big take over goes in front of a outside committee to make sure it's good for the public and businesses. Why is football not govern the same ?

I would have though having a club sponsored by a money laundering gun running bank would be bad for the PL clearly it isnt !

I think that pretty much hits why the govt want a regulator - football in England governs itself.

 

[SilverFox2]

Agree

I still dont understand how it is legal for a cartel to pick on one member of the pl. My simple brain just yells 'its bollocks, it cant be legal to pick on one club when the cartel clubs, hateful 8 are more guilty'.

It's as clear as day what's going on. I dont understand how an outside body hasnt put a stop to this witchhunt. PL is big business but is run by a cartel I thought it was illegal to have cartels in the UK .
That's why any big take over goes in front of a outside committee to make sure it's good for the public and businesses. Why is football not govern the same ?

Football has tended tto transcend country borders so the corruption was originally governed by FIFA who's corruption was shall we say cleansed by the cartel. Next we got UEFA who were and are equally corrupt and anti City.
Today we face a PL who are solely UK based so the threat or actual interference into its governance can be done at Government level.

This is a threat to most owners some of whom are foreign and most are anti City.

 

[M18CTID]

I still dont understand on what grounds the investigation was instigated.

What made the pl think City were up to no good. Why didnt the pl investigate a decade ago.

I am just a simple City fan who cant understand why other pl clubs arent investigated.

Teams like liverpool dody shirt sponsor, bullshit about developing Anfield. Leicester sponsor by the owner, utd with its books in the Carmen Islands. The list goes on.

I know people will respond it's the cartel, its racist etc. But seriously I dont see how these charges can be made when the pl turns a blind eye to other clubs

City are being charged by a corrupt organisation its pathetic.

In any other business I can operate to make it a success and if my rivals cant compete tough. Yet in football rules are put in place to stop this. That isnt fair trade. The old business gang up to bully you out. This is what the pl are doing behaving like bullies egged on by the American owned clubs who are millions in debt.

When City clear their name, they cant really sue the pl because that hurts the brand that City are in. Its bonkers.

The whole thing is clearly a witchhunt, we cant go to CAS, what's all that about. That in itself smells of corruption, no right of appeal, it's a closed shop run by our rivals.

I know I repeat myself but it just fucking annoys me that it's clearly a set up a witchhunt yet no discuss it. No calls out the pl or the American clubs or the hateful 8. I reckon if the pl investigate the hateful 8 their would find more on them than City.

It fucking stinks

I largely agree with what you're saying but the reason why all this started in the first place is because of the Der Spiegel articles courtesy of that prick Rui Pinto who claims to be a whistleblower when anyone with half a brain cell can see that he's just a fucking criminal and a wrong 'un to boot. Without that then none of this would've happened but I'm struggling to see how things could get this far - both with UEFA and the PL - if a few hacked and out of context e-mails is all they've got to go on. Sure, there's enough in those e-mails for them to ask legitimate questions but beyond that it's no more than speculation as they can be interpreted multiple different ways.

In short, you're pretty much spot on IMO - it's a witch hunt being pushed by certain clubs. While we need to clear our name first and foremost, Liam Gallagher had it right - you investigate one, you investigate all. And when you do that then you truly are into Pandora's Box territory. Let's see how all these other clubs would like it if they're subjected to a fishing expedition and being asked to tip up a shit load of confidential information.

I actually believe that until all this booted off, the Premier League were, if anything, extremely lax when it came to imposing their FFP rules on clubs, including ours. Whereas UEFA seem quite thorough when assessing clubs each year (which in turn leads to sanctions being imposed on various clubs every season), the PL has never found a single club to be in breach of any aspect of their FFP rules. Now they appear to be over-compensating by throwing as much shit as possible at us. Funny how they don't go back as far as Shinawatra's ownership though because I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's not a fucking chance we were more squeaky clean when he owned us than we have been since!

 

[give it to gordon]

I largely agree with what you're saying but the reason why all this started in the first place is because of the Der Spiegel articles courtesy of that prick Rui Pinto who claims to be a whistleblower when anyone with half a brain cell can see that he's just a fucking criminal and a wrong 'un to boot. Without that then none of this would've happened but I'm struggling to see how things could get this far - both with UEFA and the PL - if a few hacked and out of context e-mails is all they've got to go on. Sure, there's enough in those e-mails for them to ask legitimate questions but beyond that it's no more than speculation as they can be interpreted multiple different ways.

In short, you're pretty much spot on IMO - it's a witch hunt being pushed by certain clubs. While we need to clear our name first and foremost, Liam Gallagher had it right - you investigate one, you investigate all. And when you do that then you truly are into Pandora's Box territory. Let's see how all these other clubs would like it if they're subjected to a fishing expedition and being asked to tip up a shit load of confidential information.

I actually believe that until all this booted off, the Premier League were, if anything, extremely lax when it came to imposing their FFP rules on clubs, including ours. Whereas UEFA seem quite thorough when assessing clubs each year (which in turn leads to sanctions being imposed on various clubs every season), the PL has never found a single club to be in breach of any aspect of their FFP rules. Now they appear to be over-compensating by throwing as much shit as possible at us. Funny how they don't go back as far as Shinawatra's ownership though because I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's not a fucking chance we were more squeaky clean when he owned us than we have been since!

I totally agree with Liam Gallagher and that's the point how is it legal to investigate only one club ?

That's the bit I dont understand, dippers money laundering gun running bank, why isnt that investigated ? Or Leicester sponsorship ?

I dont understand how the charges against City can be taken seriously when the pl ignore the hateful 8.

Time to sign off I think I'm going round in circles lol